Author Topic: US Election Results (Late)  (Read 16742 times)

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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 17:27 »
In terms of international relations, it's why Obama evacuated Russian diplomats and is holding sanctions on Russia. The hacks of the emails (unverified) and funding propaganda overseas. This document is also a probable cause that shows that those were a more than symbolic gesture. If Trump is paying people to hack the email of his political opponents (as alleged in the document) then that is far beyond enough to get him impeached.
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2017, 00:17 »
I hope that Trump didn't pay Russia to do that, because the thought of a Mike Pence presidency scares me even more than a Trump presidency (for some weird reason).
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2017, 00:34 »
Is it because donald trump feels like a cartoon villain while mike pence feels like an actual real life villain? Because thats the way i feel and im not sure if thats fair. I mean, mike pence is a terrifying person with really frightening beliefs and who knows how much damage he could do? But then, so is trump, except hes more ridiculous and it makes people forget how awful he really is.

Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2017, 01:46 »
I feel like that Trump is honestly just a puppet for Mike Pence and that Pence is the one pulling the strings all along. I mean Trump was definitely more liberal than most democrats, yet all of a sudden he's going hyper conservative. Now who does that sound like to you here?
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Offline SaRo|Rapidash

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2017, 11:57 »
In terms of international relations, it's why Obama evacuated Russian diplomats and is holding sanctions on Russia. The hacks of the emails (unverified) and funding propaganda overseas. This document is also a probable cause that shows that those were a more than symbolic gesture. If Trump is paying people to hack the email of his political opponents (as alleged in the document) then that is far beyond enough to get him impeached.

Right, so the only consequences election wise occur if Trump were responsible?

Seems insane for it to go to Vice President, given that's going from an unfairly elected president to a not elected president, and I feel that's significantly worse, but I guess short of a new vote there's no better way to do it =/

Part of me wants to say republicans planned this all along and new Mike Pence would struggle to get elected, but using Trump it'd be easier. But then I keep remembering if that were the case, Trump could've just stepped down on getting elected, doesn't need to get kicked out unless it's for theatrics I suppose.
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Offline Milsap

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2017, 15:52 »
What's also funny is that there are loads of people going "Aw, poor liberal snowflakes, Trump won- Deal with it" when it's Trump supporters that get triggered whenever anyone slags him off.
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2017, 21:17 »
Is it because donald trump feels like a cartoon villain while mike pence feels like an actual real life villain? Because thats the way i feel and im not sure if thats fair. I mean, mike pence is a terrifying person with really frightening beliefs and who knows how much damage he could do? But then, so is trump, except hes more ridiculous and it makes people forget how awful he really is.

The difference between Pence and Trump is that none of the alt-right care about Pence. We also at least know where Pence stands on things - he's nothing if not honest. It's just he's also a scumbag, and it's not just because of his views on homosexuality, but because despite his (unironically) stellar education which taught these things, he denies evolution/climate change. His policies have led to Indiana's debt which resulted in an outbreak of AIDs due to a bad needles program, and abstinence based sex ed. Also, mothers of aborted and miscarried fetuses have to pay for cremation and funeral of those fetuses, which is being passed in Texas right now.

We don't know anything about Trump, but we know what we're getting with Pence and Pence won't inspire votes in 2020.

I feel like that Trump is honestly just a puppet for Mike Pence and that Pence is the one pulling the strings all along. I mean Trump was definitely more liberal than most democrats, yet all of a sudden he's going hyper conservative. Now who does that sound like to you here?
Absolutely not true. Pence was only there for the evangelical vote, and he's not as crazy as his brethren in the party, nor was he their preferred candidate. Kasich is someone they prefer. It sounds like Pence is just kinda there, because Kasich is an American Moderate (which is still crazy right wing in every other country).

Right, so the only consequences election wise occur if Trump were responsible?

Seems insane for it to go to Vice President, given that's going from an unfairly elected president to a not elected president, and I feel that's significantly worse, but I guess short of a new vote there's no better way to do it =/

Part of me wants to say republicans planned this all along and new Mike Pence would struggle to get elected, but using Trump it'd be easier. But then I keep remembering if that were the case, Trump could've just stepped down on getting elected, doesn't need to get kicked out unless it's for theatrics I suppose.

Republicans have no grand plan. They already tried to rig the primaries with John Kasich and contested conventions, but Ted Cruz dropped out - and Cruz is more dangerous than Trump and Pence, although Trump is liable to censor media and Kasich wouldn't. Cruz is just creepy.

As it stands, it's grounds for impeachment and potential jailing, but not reversing the results of the election. I have no doubt he is petty enough to take Pence with him, though, so we may have Paul Ryan as president if this comes to fruition.

What's also funny is that there are loads of people going "Aw, poor liberal snowflakes, Trump won- Deal with it" when it's Trump supporters that get triggered whenever anyone slags him off.

No, they are terrible. Donald Trump in his press conference yesterday was pissed off as a CNN reporter for asking a question, and said YOURE FAKE NEWS then proceeded to take a question from Breitbart. Even Fox News called him out on it and defended CNN which is insane. Otherwise, the alt-right are a bunch of trolls that project qualities onto liberals that they as a community possess. They are Neo-Nazi fascists, that accuse the left of being fascists which is far from the truth.

I've argued with people who border on alt-right for the past year and their views are insane. I also believe there's a difference between people who voted for Trump for promising hope (despite him being a huge conman and inspiring people to vote against their interests) and the alt-right, because the former have them and their families in mind and the latter are awful people.
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2017, 22:23 »
The difference between Pence and Drumpf is that none of the alt-right care about Pence. We also at least know where Pence stands on things - he's nothing if not honest. It's just he's also a scumbag, and it's not just because of his views on homosexuality, but because despite his (unironically) stellar education which taught these things, he denies evolution/climate change. His policies have led to Indiana's debt which resulted in an outbreak of AIDs due to a bad needles program, and abstinence based sex ed. Also, mothers of aborted and miscarried fetuses have to pay for cremation and funeral of those fetuses, which is being passed in Texas right now.

We don't know anything about Drumpf, but we know what we're getting with Pence and Pence won't inspire votes in 2020.


Mmm, thats fair. Id still rather... anyone else though. Literally anyone else. I mean, the other republican candidates were pretty awful too, but awful in the standard "im not crazy about gay people, women and non-christians, and climate change isnt real" rather than "we should electrocute the gay out of people and women need to hold funerals for their dead fetuses".

Also, while im sure youre right about the alt-right, they are at least pretending to support him (although i suspect thats mainly because of his connection to trump). I mean, they did kick up a fair bit of noise after that whole hamilton thing. Not that it had any impact on anything, of course, but still.

Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2017, 01:51 »
They kicked up noise because Trump kicked up noise. As for any other Republican - would've loved Kasich and McCain's bridges were burned.

On the subject of McCain, there's an alternate reality where he's president in 2000. He lost the primaries due to this:

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"An unidentified party began a semi-underground smear campaign against McCain, delivered by push polls, faxes, e-mails, flyers, audience plants, and the like.[14][54] These claimed most famously that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock (the McCains' dark-skinned daughter Bridget was adopted from Bangladesh; this misrepresentation was thought to be an especially effective slur in a Deep South state where race was still central[49]), but also that his wife Cindy was a drug addict, that he was a homosexual, and that he was a "Manchurian Candidate" traitor or mentally unstable from his North Vietnam POW days."

Awful.
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Offline Milsap

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2017, 15:52 »
I might go down Paddy Power tomorrow and see what the odds are of Trump being assassinated or impeached are going to be.
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2017, 16:33 »
^Probably about as much if Clinton was president. I've heard 25-1 odds around here.

Edit: And in the republican controlled house, they just passed the notion of removing many parts of the ACA, including the repealing of the law that requires health insurance companies to allow parents to keep their children on their healthcare plan until age 26 and can remove people with pre-existing conditions (i.e. my brother) at any time they wish.

Paul Ryan also said that high risk customers (people with pre-existing conditions such as cancer) are too expensive and should be put on a separate part of insurance that would in essence allow insurance companies to raise the prices to their hearts content to in theory lower healthcare prices for everyone else. I know they need to make a profit, but damn, they're making out like bandits already, they don't need much help tbh.

However, many people know that republicans screwed the ACA in the first place by vetoing it until the part about companies being required to sign up (therefore making it competitive) was removed. That's one of the many ways ACA ended up failing. Now, republicans are promising to fix the healthcare system, but their first step was to allow companies to jack the prices up as they please.

Already seeing this should be an interesting 4 years.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 18:56 by SirBlaziken »
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2017, 22:51 »
Well, the ACA didn't "fail" depending on your definition. It got around 20 million Americans insurance and overall slowed the rate of increase, but it gave too much power to private insurance companies even still, so it was kind of destined to fail like our closer-to-capitalism system would allow it.

I mean, the ACA greatly lowered my parents' monthly premiums at any rate, but throwing poor families with bad health out into the dust is an awful thing and the Republican party should be ashamed. They're a bunch of sociopaths and I have no idea how they sleep at night.
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2017, 23:09 »
The tax on people who didn't have healthcare was the huge thing, because from what I saw many of the people who get taxed were poorer families. Do you think it was a lack of caring by those families or the fact that too much power was given to private insurance companies that did this?
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #43 on: January 16, 2017, 00:42 »
The fine for lacking insurance is no different from previous fines for lacking insurance. The idea is that the fine should be more expensive than actually having insurance, and if more people have insurance that decreases premiums (or at least keeps them from increasing as fast). It's supposed to be an incentive and the issue in the end is that the fine costs less than the insurance so people only get insurance when they need it, then pay the fine the rest of the way.
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #44 on: January 16, 2017, 00:52 »
If the fine is less than the insurance, then wouldn't more people would be inclined to just take the fine because it hurts their budget less?
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