Author Topic: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council  (Read 7203 times)

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Offline Lorem Ipsum

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2009, 17:49 »
I have to say, I fundamentally agree with this idea. I don't see how people can disagree with this, when this is what they've been asking for in the topic that seems to be raging still. It ensures the gap between staff and member is bridged, and allows the member faction to decide who they want to represent them. Also, this thing about it being a popularity contest, people generally are human beings. They are swayed by tradition or background, even in General Elections in the real world. So in essence, that makes it a popularity contest, but a more structured popularity contest.

Let's put it this way. Candidate A has a different policy, Policy X. Candidate B has another policy, Policy Y. The people who like Policy X will therefore 'prefer' the person that is Candidate A and vote that way. In the next UK General Election, I think that some people will vote against Gordon Brown and the Labour party simply because they don't like him, not because of the policies, but that's what people think. You can't invalidate an idea because people might not sue their votes in the way that you specifically want them to; that's why campaigning is paramount. And I'm sure that most members who witnessed this event, raging on at the moment, will see the gravity of this and vote seriously. Even if you have stupid votes in real General Elections, the number of people voting for the BNP or the Monster Raving Loony Party won't affect the general outcome of the votes.

Isn't that a problem that democracy has and will always have, but makes it such a powerful tool for voicing opinions?

Offline Mulholland

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2009, 17:52 »
@Lorem Ipsum: That's very true.

Maybe an idea would be to make the candidates anonymous? Like have a form that each candidate fills out which is then posted by one of the mods/admins.

People then vote purely on policy and thus preventing it becoming 'OMG XYZ IS MY BEST FRIEND!!1111 *votes* and more like 'mmmmm XYZ has some good ideas *votes*'

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2009, 05:35 »
Is this cancelled? I sincerely hope it's not. Despite all the criticisms it's getting, it's a brilliant idea.

Now, to me, there seems to be two main things being complained about.

1. It will be a popularity contest - I don't disagree with this, but I don't see how this is exactly a bad thing either. Surely, people who are popular would want to keep that favorable appearance by actually listening to what people have to say and bringing those issues up. And if someone who honestly had no place on the Member Council ended up a candidate, I doubt any amount of popularity would help them win an election. I have at least enough sense to know an honest person I dislike deserves to be my representative more than a lackadaisical person I am friends with; I'm fairly sure that the community at large is just as logical. I trust them to make the right decisions, popularity aside.

2. The issue is with Jeroen, not the staff. - So it is. But this does seem like a step in the right direction. This is the staff, including Jeroen, showing that they are willing to give us a more personal, focused, concise voice to channel our concerns through - at least, that's how I see it. I don't think this is an opportunity to be passed up...otherwise the whole fiasco of the last few days might just run in circles.

I hope this doesn't sound like me "sucking up" to either party, considering how I had arguably held an opposite opinion in the other topic. I was just a little surprised at some of the criticisms this was getting and wanted to offer my two cents.

Offline Zy

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council
« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2009, 21:48 »
I think, with some proper modifications to the original idea posted by Peter (not going to list them. if Harry, Mitch and Peter want to know they can PM me or MSN me), and a bit of control, or rather "self-restraint" when it comes to some members, as well as a very strong bypass filter for members and representitives, this would be an excellent idea.

As when it comes to the popularity contests, I think what we can do is that each applicant submits anything via PM to the Staff / People organizing this thing, who in turn post replacing names with "Member X" or "The Candidate" or something like this, to keep as much anonymousity as possible. This is again, reliant on self control, so you don't go around saying "this is my idea 8D" etc.
However, Harry mentioned that it will always happen, but if we can control it as much as possible, and I know this goes against the whole point, we will able to make it fairer in the long run. After all, let's say Member X is utterly useless but has lots of friends. They get voted in. they do nothing, and this causes problems arranging a by-election, usurping their power, etc.

I think anything not set in stone will need some heavy filters to be successful and unbiased. This involves jobs, abilities and the like, as well as candidates and Member-elects.

As for the actual topic itself, I think that a Member Council is just what this site needs. Considering our bad publicity, as well as several well known issues regarding Staff-Member relations, perhaps a neutral ground on both sides will help to negotiate terms between two parties. Of course, again, the filter for members comes into it; a need for good English, good manners, and to have at least some actual respect from a lot of people are only basic points which the representitives need in order to make this successful. Of course, I'm not saying new members who neglect capital letters should be prevented from applying, I should just say that what they do, and their Social Background and Social Abilities rather than their personal background is to be considered when selecting people. But the fact still remains that should this project see official light, I'm sure it'll be a great success for the site as a whole.

Yes, there will be problems, similar to every democratic government ever in history. Yes, there will be rebellers and protesters, there may be some people who disagree on policies, views and ideas, but when you look at a majority, you can't satisfy every individual. That's something I've learnt whilst applying for Head Boy, but that's another story. However, each representitive must be aware of EVERYBODY. That odd person with posts barely in double digits may want something impossible, but they cannot be ignored - they're a member too, and what they say counts.

This is needs LOTS of co-operation from everybody if it is to be the gleaming success we want it to be, and I think with something this important, the members of PKMN.net can at least band together. There will be a need to hide nominations and candidates. There will be a need to restrict a lot of crucial ideas and points, but no democracy is ever perfect.

that's my 200 cents.
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Offline b1g

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Re: ANNOUNCEMENT: Member Council
« Reply #34 on: October 03, 2009, 10:29 »
The members elected need to know what they are talking about, first and foremost. Although it has been already addressed a member in the council who doesn't use IRC but is elected for the IRC place (not saying there is or will even be an IRC spot on the member council) would be useless, but if it is someone popular who is a big name around the forums then people would go, "Hey, look, he's cool, let's choose him!"

This has nothing to do with Joeno, in my honest opinion. It is a member council, not a Joeno council, so why are we all complaning about him in this thread? This has been worked on 110% by Mulholland just to name one.

I agree with Zy's solution to the popularity problem - send in anonymous 'resumes', if you call them that, as to why you would be capable (insert other generic interview/criteria questions) etcetc and then they would be picked by the members as to which looked the most appropriate on paper, not on who is the hottest or who has the most karma.

better than you, est. always