Author Topic: US Election Results (Late)  (Read 16734 times)

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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2016, 01:27 »
^The Democratic side seems to think it's to either make a statement or it doesn't really matter and voting is a waste of time from what i've seen. Of course there will be some people who don't fit that.
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2016, 02:08 »
that's because wrongly, democrats believe voting is to make a statement and republicans rightly believe its to gain power.
"democrats fall in love, republicans fall in line"

would also like to note that Trump won because of disgruntled voters that want their job back in the rust belt. With an all republican congress and presidency, they're completely screwed in the ass if they don't pull that off, which they won't because those jobs are as good as gone

in reality, i'm crying discrimination and all that crap, but the rust belt is a seriously depressing place to live and ideally the 2020 democratic nomination can at least preach an actual solution to fix their issue. I would suggest more training in technology and the sciences, like IT training or things to that effect, rather than continue to trick them into believing their jobs will come back.

but in all reality, the democrat and republican party are both idiots and I am only a registered democrat because the people that align with my views (Bernie Sanders) emerge from there more often than not. The democrats are weak, perpetually fractured, and incompetent whereas the Republicans are purely corrupt. Both parties are a slave to their corporate interests. There's a nice Lewis Black bit on this that ends up saying "The Democrats are a party of no ideas, and the Republicans are the party of bad ideas, and when they get together they produce even worse ideas."
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 02:15 by Lord Raven »
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2016, 02:16 »
^Reminds me of something a friend pointed out the other day; trump won because promised to "make america great again" by dialling the country back to the ideal version of america (that of course never actually existed, but thats besides the point). Hillary, on the other hand, was a vote for the system to stay the same, because it sort of works anyway and, hey, its how the people in power got the power they have, so why would they want to change it?

Personally, id have said a vote for things to stay the same is better than a vote to move things backwards, but obviously if the democrats want to win the next election they need someone who will actually offer to move forwards. The idea of it training and the like sounds really sensible; the world you lived in is gone, so accept that and well help you adapt to the new world.


Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2016, 02:40 »
I think in a lot of ways, the only way America can truly move forward is when our elderly die and the pervasive fear of the Red Scare dies down. The baby boomers have lived too long and dictated the world of the millennial generation, as well as actively made our lives worse, because of their outdated policies which should exist anymore. Generation X is kind of screwed because they couldn't live up to the baby boomers and they had to basically live through stuff like the Challenger Explosion and many had to live through the fallout of watergate, and millennials basically aren't given much of a future because we're swimming in debt and we were promised that we can pursue our dreams and be successful when this was not true.

I'm hoping this fake news story doesn't drown out the noise that the democratic party highly screwed up this election. Don't get me wrong, I still believe even in retrospect that Clinton had a better chance of winning than Bernie Sanders (remember, the biggest voting demographic are baby boomers and generation X, and those guys lived through McCarthyism and the Red Scare) but the idea of isolating Sanders supporters as well as the truth of our political system coming to light was a shame.

I -- by the way -- in no means believe that this DNC leak was exclusive to this election or this party. In fact, I'm pretty sure the deck was stacked against Barack Obama in the same way, but let's be real that Barack Obama was a much stronger candidate than Sanders, even if my views align with Sanders. This whole thing came to light in the mainstream rather than people speculating through internet debate. People are also voting Republican despite the Republicans trying to do something similar with Kasich - but in all honesty, the media gave too much attention to Trump's rhetoric and it was painful to keep watching. I would actually not be completely pissed off with a Kasich presidency given his stance on climate change, though he is a dirty dirty corrupt Republican (more dirty and corrupt than any Democrat). But as it stands, the Republicans weren't successful with it because Cruz dropped out and they couldn't have a whatever the hell the term is called between them and go with Kasich.

As it stands, the only silver linings is that Trump beat Cruz. I'm pretty sure a Cruz presidency would cause an even more significant freakout, if not now then in the very long term. God how I wish Kasich sucked it up and became the veep instead of Mike Pence, who is probably an even greater example of white privilege than Trump himself.

If this means a proper democratic and proper leftist rally from the Democrats in 2020, then I would look at the Trump-Pence presidency as a small price to pay for a long-term change in our establishment. At the same time, I do wish the third party choices were stronger (god dammit Gary Johnson and Jill Stein? Christ, what were those parties smoking? They're even worse than Clinton) so maybe I could throw a protest vote in my home state which would go Blue no matter what.

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because it sort of works anyway

When wages have historically increased 4x (idk the exact number) slower than inflation, people have to deal with a neutered healthcare system that is still pro-corporate (but managed to slow the increase in premiums), and the wage gap between the poor and the rich is growing immensely, the system doesn't "sort of work." The system has always been broken. But I'm a staunch leftist, first-generation American and son of legal immigrants who wanted to escape the Wahhabis taking over the culture of the middle east and Pakistan, and grown up poor for the majority of my life, so I'm obviously biased.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 02:43 by Lord Raven »
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2016, 11:06 »
Oh yeah, im fully aware the system is broken. By "sort of works" I meant that most people are generally allowed to live out something resembling a normal life, some lucky people can achieve wealth and the number of homeless is just low enough that we can pretend to ourselves that its not an issue. The system works in that it could be a lot worse, which makes people scared to try anything different that could potentially make it better.

Who knows, though, maybe the way forward is trump burning the system to the ground with terrible decisions, so we can build a new system from the old ones ashes.

Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2016, 18:51 »
in reality, i'm crying discrimination and all that crap, but the rust belt is a seriously depressing place to live

Preach.

ideally the 2020 democratic nomination can at least preach an actual solution to fix their issue. I would suggest more training in technology and the sciences, like IT training or things to that effect

Maybe if people in our area would stop thinking that college is a waste of time and getting a factory job is the great, big thing then we could start moving forward. Until then, nothing will get done even if the government would push us forward. This is coming from someone who lives in the shadow of Timken Steel.

Who knows, though, maybe the way forward is trump burning the system to the ground with terrible decisions, so we can build a new system from the old ones ashes.

I mean what if that's his plan all along. Probably isn't, because he isn't THAT smart.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 19:00 by SirBlaziken »
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2016, 20:03 »
Maybe if people in our area would stop thinking that college is a waste of time and getting a factory job is the great, big thing then we could start moving forward. Until then, nothing will get done even if the government would push us forward. This is coming from someone who lives in the shadow of Timken Steel.

how is the state of education in Ohio? Is it crappy or is it "better than the average school"? Because if it's the former, then it makes sense why people would view college as a waste of time.

I went to two different high schools and I think my first one had like 50-60% people who went off to college (it was a partially rural area) and my second one had like 90% of people who went off to college (suburban where the majority of people's parents had some sort of government or engineering job). It's kind of insane how much of a bubble both sides live in, and it's so stupid to continue to lie to people about their jobs coming back, because they're not coming back and you're pretty much deluding them and keeping them out of work and education until they basically die.
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2016, 14:09 »
It depends on where you're at. If it's Columbus or Cincinnati, then there's a good chance you're going to college. If it's the bottom half (moneywise) Stark county (like where I live) or inner city Cleveland or somewhere in the northwest, college is generally laughed at (we're on the bottom half moneywise in stark county, and there's a good amount of well off people fyi). Ironically enough, a lot of good universities are in the northwest.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 14:15 by SirBlaziken »
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #23 on: December 25, 2016, 23:20 »
Quote
There's a reason fewer than 10% of Americans trust MSM these days, and now they're calling any dissenting news 'Fake News'. Their backpedaling is a great source of amusement for me.

I would also like to show you a few things about this point.

http://www.snopes.com/2016/01/14/fake-news-sites/

This has gone beyond "dissenting opinions" and into "conspiracy theories with no basis in reality."
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Offline SirBlaziken

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2016, 03:51 »
Lemme just say that whenever something bad in the US happens, the democrats get rabid and blame trump and the republicans get rabid and blame ISIS or mexicans. Meanwhile, no one's even attempting to fix the problem because everyone's too busy pointing fingers and standing in front of cameras. At this point, I wouldn't care if my kindergarten teacher or a high school lacrosse coach from Maine, or hell even *insert name of random person here* became president as long as they did a better job than the loons we ended up having to vote for.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 15:25 by SirBlaziken »
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Offline Milsap

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 13:35 »
It looks like too many people bought the stuff shouted by the Republicans louder over the stuff said by the Democrats in the same way that Brexit happened. "Obama's a Muslim!" "Obama wants our guns!" "Obama wants a Commie healthcare system!"

"Socialism" of any kind equates to Communism for some reason, and that's a paranoia that for some reason still resonates.
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2017, 06:12 »
https://twitter.com/YESsteveYES/status/818984109271818240

If anyone is curious. tl;dr a huge investigation of Trump has lead to tons and tons of connections to bribing the Russians to sabotage the election. Insanity.

Tomorrow is going to be interesting.
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Offline SaRo|Rapidash

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2017, 09:28 »
What actually happens in the event the Russian hack happened? I'm assuming the election would be recalled or something, or is it just a sort of 'suck it up, we'll have better security next time' type deal?

(Also I find it interesting they managed to pull off the hack - idk about the US but in the UK all voting is done by ballot, not digitally, so they must've only had a few windows to hack it (like during communication between regional counting facility things and the statewide results (again, not sure how it works in the US, we have many counting places that send their individual results somewhere, where they're tallied to get the state results), or between the statewide result and the national media, but that seems unlikely because someone would notice "hang on, I counted more for Hillary so why is the media saying we're Trump"? Not saying the hacks didn't happen, I think they're pretty likely, just going to find it interesting if they discover how they were executed.)
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2017, 10:01 »
What are you defining as Russian hacks?


EDIT: I should be clearer - Russia did not hack the electronic ballot boxes. This is a hoax that is being pushed by fake news outlets, in favor of a narrative of the Jill Stein donation-funded recount (fyi, the remaining funds are to fund another Green Party campaign in 2020, so don't be mislead by that). The election was won by Trump.

Whether or it was fairly or within rules is a different story. What I am posting is actually not relevant to hacking ballot boxes - it deals with Trump involvement in Russia to hack DNC emails and push a misleading narrative (no, Bernie was not screwed over; he was a weak candidate). Active encouragement, potential bribery towards Republican politicians, and some weird sexual stuff in there. This is, as it stands, unverified and every source is stating that it's unverified, but it has been lurking around media circles for around 6 months. There is a good deal of stuff that may obviously be untrue, and there is a good deal that may be true. Or somewhere in between.

There's a cliffnotes version on twitter.

Russian involvement was at best (meaning at least) the systematic spread of fake news through social media outlets, the kind of stuff that buzzfeed news (not buzzfeed!) has talked about in detail in the past.


also btw: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-to-meet-with-proponent-of-debunked-tie-between-vaccines-and-autism/2017/01/10/4a5d03c0-d752-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html?utm_term=.a4ab5d3fcdfb

This is a career ender in other countries. I sincerely believe that the Republicans cut education funding to keep in control of a less educated populace, while they profit and leave none for the rest. In this case, it's a pro-plague policy; at any rate, if/when I have kids, they're getting vaccines ASAP.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:07 by Lord Raven »
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Offline SaRo|Rapidash

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Re: US Election Results (Late)
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2017, 10:08 »
I thought they'd allegedly hacked the vote count? I've only briefly heard about it, I just assumed that was the only way you could really hack an election. Although some googling shows it may have just been hacking Clinton's emails, which I'm guessing whilst unethical and probably illegal, doesn't constitute election misconduct?
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