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Other Pokemon => Fake Whatever => Topic started by: MonsterMon64 on August 19, 2013, 12:20
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So for some reason I was thinking about status effects and stuff, when I realised... Steel can't be poisoned, Fire can't be burned... Why not take full advantage of this with a defensive Pokemon? Input is more than welcome, since this is all I've figured so far:
BASE STATS
HP: 80
Attack: 60
Defense: 150
Sp. ATK: 70
Sp. DEF: 150
Speed: 70
BST 580
Abilities I was thinking of are Limber, Insomnia, and Magic Bounce. Moves I was thinking of include Recover, Rapid Spin, uh.. Will-o-Wisp, I guess? Basically I'm trying to think of something that's difficult to bog down with status while being formidable defensively. But then... all this said and done, I can't even picture what this Pokemon would look like. Can anyone think of a design or concept that'd make sense for it? Again, any input is welcome, and thank you for your time.
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Good stats, but Toxic instead of WoW and the ability should be magic bounce.
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Although Toxic does more damage, WoW does have a very nice side effect of halving their attack, and considering a 4x weakness to EQ, halving their attack is very useful.
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Well, it shouldn't be taking ground type attacks period. However, to troll, its ability should be levitate.
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If it can't take an Earthquake or Closexombat, it ain't going to wall much
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WoW is better than Toxic in this case because this Pokémon is ridiculously defensive already, and even more so paired up with the opponent's halved Attack stat courtesy of WoW. The Pokémon's Defense stats are great where they are. WoW works toward the outside. It gobbles down the foe's Attack stat, which is pretty much a reflection of the ally's Defense stat, giving you a virtual Defense stat increase. Wall.
Abilities? I'd say Levitate. Obvious.
Flame Body. Its percentage isn't enough to replace Will-O-Wisp, and in general it's more risky, especially since Levitate's job is handed down to Air Balloon, if needed. It's shaky, but here is a second ability.
Magic Bounce as a Hidden Ability. It's defensive in a way, as it blows away a lot of dirt in battle.
Another ability could be Intimidate. It gives Will-O-Wisp a separate little boost, but only at the start of a battle/switch-in. It's not really one of its possible dominant abilities. It could be one of the more useless abilities every Pokémon has as opposed to its others. It could work, but not that much.
When we're really talking about it, it seems like this is a real Pokémon. Well, the details about typing and abilities is enough to get us going.
I can always sprite this if you want, if someone has a design idea. I could always think of my own. However, I am lazy at the moment.
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Magic Bounce would be too overpowered with something this defensive. If we're talking of actual plausibility, Regenerator, Flame Body, Flash Fire, Magnet Pull, or at the very best, Magic Guard, though that's even a bit of a stretch. It really depends on the design of the Pokemon, though, as it needs to make sense with what the Pokemon is based on.
As for the Will-o-Wisp vs. Toxic debate, we turn to the already existing Heatran, which utilizes... both. Both are good for different things. Toxic is great for bulky Water types while Will-o-Wisp and Lava Plume are good for physical attackers. So it's entirely dependant on what you want to deal with.
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Ah cool, lots of input since I last checked here! lemme try to summarize my thoughts...
Oddly enough, I didn't even think to give it Levitate. I was so focused on trying to make it so it can't be shut down that I didn't even think of the obvious weaknesses it has when someone goes to actually ATTACK it. That said, I'm not sure I want to give it Levitate, even if taking 4x damage from Earthquake IS kind of nasty.
@Richard: I'm glad you said something about Magic Bounce. I was worried it might be a bit too overpowered on it, but I just needed to make sure. Regenerator sounds tempting, but that brings me to the next point, and something I'm also glad you emphasized; the Pokemon's design. So far all I've thought of is a... flaming shield. It could be best friends with Honedge, but other than that I can't help but think I'm not winning points for originality here ^^;
Anyway, I'll try to think more on my own later as it comes to me, but right now I'm sort of just waking up. Thanks again for the input, guys, and I welcome any more if you have it!
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I've just though; if you have it magic guard, wouldn't that defeat the object of fire and steel being immune to status?
If you did go for magic guard, Dark/Ghost would make more sense, or maybe Steel/Flying, that'd get quite a few resistances/immunities
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Magic Guard helps against Stealth Rock and Spikes more than anything else...
But what you're trying to do is make it broken whereas I'm just trying to keep in line with some sense of realism. I don't think changing type entirely is what he wanted.
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Yeah, it's more that the reasoning for the fire/steel was:
Steel can't be poisoned, Fire can't be burned... Why not take full advantage of this with a defensive Pokemon?
But magic guard would prevent these anyway, so the whole point of it being Fire/Steel would be nonexistent.
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But again, Magic Guard isn't for Burn or Poison. It's preventing damage from entry hazards and even Leech Seed. I'm not saying it's the perfect ability for it, but changing the type seems counter-productive to the topic.
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I now it wasn't originally for that, but it still does it regardless. I do think it is one of the best abilities for a defensive 'mon, but it does eliminate the need for a fire steel typing.
Anyway, another interesting ability to try might be quick feet. It may seem odd, but then if they try to paralyse you, it would only make you faster. Not the greatest ability, but an obscure one to consider.
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That said, I'm not sure I want to give it Levitate, even if taking 4x damage from Earthquake IS kind of nasty.
I said as a troll ability, I wasn't serious.
Richard, once again, you're right, and magic guard could work, but I would have to make sense, like you said.
Honestly, the pokemon is already bulky enough, something like milotic could wall it to mars and back depending on the move set, along with jellicent, and many other bulky waters, that's why Toxic is a great idea to me, but it's your decision.
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I said as a troll ability, I wasn't serious.
I just thought I'd point out my stance, since you weren't the only one who brought it up. =P
@ディック, Quick Feet isn't worth the chance of being fully paralyzed IMO. Not to mention sleep is a much more reliable status for shutting down, well, anything. It's kind of why I thought of Insomnia for it (or maybe Vital Spirit considering the typing, since both abilities do the same thing)
Thinking about it... In terms of the design, maybe not a shield, per se, but I like the idea of a flaming warrior in heavy armor. Problem is, how does one Pokemon-ify such a concept? Though if I'm going for that, maybe switch the current Base Attack with its Base Sp.ATK? It's not going to do much attacking anyway...
Regardless, I'll try to come up with a rough design. I can't promise anything pretty, but it'd be better than nothing.
EDIT: No color scheme yet, but sheesh, this looks more like a Robot Master than a Pokemon:
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/1133/6oew.png)
I like the idea of its shields absorbing the heat around it or such and firing it at its enemies. Maybe it could learn Mirror Coat? Other possible moves are Overheat and Solar Beam, but again, it's not meant to be offensive. Though if I stick with this design, maybe Recover wouldn't make sense... augh this is much harder than I thought...
If anyone can think of anything better, please do suggest something!
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That looks awesome! But, like you said, maybe not quite Pokémon like. It looks a little like a Golurk counterpart.
I had an idea of a Fire Breathing armoured dinosaur that looks something like this:
(http://s9.postimg.org/6op3hpv23/image.jpg)
(excuse the absolutely awful drawing, it was more just to show a suggestion)
If you wanted a recovery move for the robot, what about Morning Sun? Say it's a guardian of a desert temple or something, so it used the sunlight to recover HP? I don't know... That's the best I can think of.
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Thank you! Golurk did come to mind while I was drawing it, haha. But yeah, at least we agree it could use a redesign...
I actually like the idea of an armored dino. Was toying with making the knight-thingy part salamander, too, but the tail looked out of place on it. I'll see what I can do!
As for Morning Sun... I think that'd work best in a Sunny Day team, and even then it's highly situational. I'll have to look up other recovery moves when I get a chance...
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Solar panel design features!
(cool concept Monstermon :) )
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Instant Recovery moves that arent affected by weather are:
Recover; Roost; Softboiled; Milk Drink; Slack Off; Heal Order & Rest
Damaging recovery moves are:
Absorb; Mega Drain; Giga Drain; Horn Leech; Drain Punch; Leech Life; Dream Eater; Present (sort of) & Leech Seed (sort of)
Constant recovery moves are:
Aqua Ring; Leech Seed (again) & Ingrain
Weather dependent Recovery moves are:
Synthesis; Moonlight & Morning Sun
I think that's all, if that helps you choose one.
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@Liam: Thanks! I'm thinking maybe keeping the "absorb heat with metal" thing is a good idea.
...which leads me to the dino-thing!
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/1971/q0dr.png)
A lot happier with how this one came out; it looks a lot more like a Pokemon imo. Maybe this thing could learn Stealth Rock and Dragon Tail, too?
@ディック: Ah, thanks for the list! Out of the straight-up healing moves, Slack Off is a bit of a stretch flavor-wise, but it's the most plausible for the dino-thing, I think. Wouldn't work at all for the knight, though. Best bet is probably Morning Sun for the dino, if I had to pick one.
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I love that drawing! I think that would take the place of Victini in my usual team ;D
Looking at that drawing, It'd be quite cool if it learned some sort of cannon based move, because the things on its back look like mortars (or motorbike exhausts...).
If you wanted to use recover, the entry for recover says it 'replecates it's own cells', not completely out of the question if it fitted into the story. (Something Mewtwo-esque, maybe? Especially with the new antagonists being called what they are.)
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^Haha, thanks! ;D
Well, I looked up what other Pokemon have a Base Stat of 580, and a seems a lot of them are part of some sort of "Trio", so having two more and having them all be genetically engineered would be interesting, at least! Thinking Electric/Steel for one of them, can't decide on the third*, but they'd all be armored dinos of some sort... This is sort of turning out to be pretty cool! Still iffy on giving it recover just because it's genetically engineered, though. I'll wait to see what others have to say.
*I'm leaning towards Water/Steel for the third. I'd say Ice/Steel, but hoo baby, the weaknesses on that thing...
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Ice/Steel would be decent offensively, focusing on the Ice type without taking damage from Stealth Rock.
Anyway, I like the design! It reminds me of Terrakion too! With the above design, I'd say Solid Rock isn't an entirely implausible ability for it either, and it'd help it defensively. Especially if it burned coal in those tails! :3
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Water/Steel or Ice/Steel could be interesting, maybe a Plesiosaur type thing? And then Electric/Steel could be based on a Quetzalcoatlus, to do a Land/Sea/Air sort of trio?
Solid Rock would be an awesome ability for it, it'd certainly make Earthquake and Close Combat less threatening.
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Yes! Solid Rock sounds pretty perfect to me. And yeah, definitely Plesio for the Water or Ice one. If we did a Land/Sea/Air thing for sure, then I can actually see the Electric/Steel getting Levitate, haha.
Anyway, now that we have some base stats, an ability, and a concept of what the darn thing looks like, maybe we can start focusing on learnset, strategies, etc. (Obviously not all the level-up moves have to be GREAT, just believable. For example, I can see this thing using Smokescreen but competitively it's pretty bleh.)
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Although it wouldn't be particularly useful, I can see this thing getting Head Smash as an egg move.
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Well that's assuming it can even breed, haha. I definitely see it as something it can learn naturally, though!
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I suppose it would be a little hard to find an egg group for ;D
Maybe the movesets for the three should link up? E.g.
Level 50: Fire Blast/Thunder/Hydro Pump (or Blizzard)
That's just an example, of course, but you know what I mean?
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That's usually how the trios do it, yeah. They also have similar stats, which is why I'm sort of hesitant to make a defensive Ice/Steel. Either way, I can see the Plesiosaur getting Marvel Scale...
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Yeah, that definitely makes sense.
Maybe as a rough thing for the first 20 levels:
Level 1: Ember/Water Gun/Thunder Shock
Level 1: Leer
Level 4: Withdraw
Level 8: Metal Claw
Level 12: WoW/Aqua Ring/Thunder Wave
Level 16: Flash Cannon
Level 20: Flame Wheel/Water Pulse/Shock Wave
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Be careful not to give it too much. This looks like a legendary, so no Egg moves in my opinion. Here's how I'd lay it out:
-Fire Fang
-Smokescreen
-Withdraw
8 - Ember
12 - Metal Claw
18 - Ancientpower
24 - Metal Sound
30 - Will-o-Wisp
36 - Iron Defense
42 - Roar
47 - Lava Plume
50 - Iron Head
58 - Stone Edge
65 - Fire Blast
71 - Head Smash
80 - Flash Cannon
88 - Eruption
TMs:
TM01 - Hone Claws
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM22 - Solarbeam
TM23 - Smack Down
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM32 - Double Team
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Flame Charge
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract (Unless this Pokemon is genderless. Keep in mind, some legendaries are, some are not, but if it is, it has to learn Attract via TM)
TM48 - Round
TM50 - Overheat
TM54 - False Swipe
TM59 - Incinerate
TM61 - Will-o-Wisp
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM67 - Retaliate
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM70 - Flash
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM78 - Bulldoze
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
TM91 - Flash Cannon
TM94 - Rock Smash
HM04 - Strength
Move Tutors
-Iron Head
-Iron Defense
-Iron Tail
-Snore
-Sleep Talk
-Stealth Rock
-Earth Power
-Heat Wave
-Knock Off
-Pain Split
In my opinion, these are the moves that make the most sense with the design without making it overpowered. I'm not saying it's the end-all list or anything, just my opinion on it.
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That looks good, but there's one possible flaw, I'm assuming they'd all have a Lv. 88 move similar to eruption. If it the Water or Ice one was Water/Steel, then Water Spout would be the obvious choice, but then what for the electric one? The only options I can think of there would be make a new move, or use Volt Tackle (or another similar move I'm likely overlooking)
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I think maybe adding molten iron panels to the sides of its head would look cool, but great designs overall!
If this were to be standard in OU, it's set could be
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail
- Morning Sun/Rapid Spin
That looks like something a Sun Team would love. A more defensive Heatran that can phaze and spin? Hell yeah.
I think it should have a move pool like Torkoal, as all bar Dragon Tail are in it's move pool iirc.
Holy smokes (no pun intended) Rich, thst was ninjaesque
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Thunder would work as the final move for an Electric/Steel type. It's not perfect, but neither is Eruption. In fact, on this, it's nearly useless.
As for Rapid Spin and Dragon Tail, they seem a bit iffy to me. Dragon Tail seems a bit too OP with such a defensive Pokemon that can inflict status in so many ways without being able to be worn down by Toxic/Toxic Spikes. It also doesn't really have a Dragon-esque tail, in my opinion. Similarly, Rapid Spin seems... odd for a legendary, and on something this defensive, it'd make Spinning incredibly easy, which seems to be something that they shy away from.
And finally, I think giving it any recovery move outside of Rest and Pain Split would be enough to break this Pokemon, even if it is weather reliant.
Given the moves I've listed, I could see the following two sets being viable:
Rest, Sleep Talk, Lava Plume, Toxic
Stealth Rock, Lava Plume, Toxic/Will-o-Wisp, Pain Split / Flash Cannon / Hidden Power (Grass/Ice)
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Thunder would work as the final move for an Electric/Steel type. It's not perfect, but neither is Eruption. In fact, on this, it's nearly useless..
Ah, I was assuming that to be the Fire Blast counterpart, but if it isn't, Thunder would work fine.
Edit: Just out of boredom, I ran a quick calculation into PS's damage calculator, and 252 Adamant Salamence is guaranteed to 2HKO a 252/252 +Def one of these with Earthquake (assuming Solid Rock)
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Shell Armor is another possible ability. If this is so defensive, the ability blocks critical hits and makes it even more so. It's probably overshadowed by some other possible abilities here, but this ability's name is even connotative of the Pokémon's Steel typing.
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Just to add to what SiteHaunter said, it would also open a possibility to use defense boosting moves. Although they may not have room on the sets, it still becomes much more plausible if crits aren't going to ignore them.
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Disallowing crits is a bit OP, but considering that calculation, maybe it has merit? Registeel has similar defensive stats, so possibly looking at that might provide more ideas.