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Misc => Debate => Topic started by: Milsap on April 15, 2013, 21:32
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Without carpet bombing them, that is.
Will an armed conflict be the only resolution? Or can Kim Jong Un be talked out of it?
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Assassinate the elite. The people of North Korea need help but they're too scared to rise up against their leaders :/
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They won't stand up because they've been brainwashed. They're brought up believing their country is invincible, the US is the enemy of the state and their leaders are some sort of god. They have no internet, their mobile phones have the 3G and internet removed, and television/papers will only print and report things that portray the government in a positive way. There are the odd one or two who see the light and try to escape, but it's a risky mission to say the least.
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I think the US need to seriously stop provoking them and get their nose out of this for a while.
What a lot of people fail to realize is that over the course of 20th century history, the attitudes between the east and west have changed dramatically.
It sounds silly to us now in a world where we see racism as bigotry of the highest order, but there was a time when the east and the west did things very differently and that was accepted as-is.
Japan got nuked by America and then eventually had to start trade links with them to repair the damage done.
Vietnam etc. speaks largely for itself. Think American soldiers pasting Napalm over the women and children in their villages and raping them.
China has never been too trusting/trustable and has been in business talks with America as of late.
South Korea is the latest eastern economy to really spring up thanks to South Korean music, fashion and electronic exports.
I don't agree at all with how North Korea treat their people, but I think from their point of view they are scared. They have seen the entire east play into the hands of the US, mainly through brute force under the guise of 'democracy', (which is exactly why the middle east isn't too happy with America either). North Korea are not as big or powerful as China and their neighbours have recently shown to be siding with the Americans. Nobody is throwing them a rope here, they're forcing their idea of what is 'right' down North Korea's neck and North Korea is ready to vomit it back up.
Is it any wonder that their finger is on the button? The East was once imperialist, and whether we like it or not, or whether think it's a good thing or not, that was their way of life for thousands of years. From their point of view, they've seen their closest neighbours either get bombed into submission to cooperate with America or have chased the Democracy/Capitalism, which is normally controlled by America anyway. This has happened in the space of about 100 years (if that), hardly a natural organic change.
America hates North Korea, if they could move in and 'set the people free' do you really think it would still be North Korea's country? No, their government would be policed by America and the world knows it.
The whole situation is a mess; brainwashing your people is cruel and ridiculous, threatening to nuke anyone and everyone is ridiculous, but I can't help but see it slightly from their point of view. Their actions may be dumb, but it's not like they woke up one day and decided to be evil oppressive tyrants, it's cause-and-effect from a lot of 'join us or die' bullying.
I don't think anyone knows how to deal with this situation, but one thing is for sure - America needs to be removed from the equation before their big mouths cause them or some other country to be blown off the map. Stop talking smack, America. They know what they are up against, they don't need you to provoke them into doing something dumb.
Also the fact that we have Americans saying 'HA THEY CAN'T BOMB US WE HAVE A MUCH BETTER MILITARY' is getting ridiculous too, North Korea see themselves as cornered and when they are cornered they will basically have nothing left to lose and that's when they WILL send the Nukes flying. No, they won't 'beat' the Americans, but they will cause one hell of a lot of collateral damage on their way out.
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Also the fact that we have Americans saying 'HA THEY CAN'T BOMB US WE HAVE A MUCH BETTER MILITARY' is getting ridiculous too,
Exactly. I seem to remember Vietnam being a HUGE success.
No, their government would be policed by America and the world knows it.
Again, I'm in agreement. The people won't vote in who they want afterwards. They'll have to vote in who AMERICA wants them to vote in. Like in Egypt- They've voted in their new Prime Minister and now America's like "Nope, can't have him, pick someone else".
The whole situation is a mess; brainwashing your people is cruel and ridiculous
Americans are brought up told their country is the best in the world, they're invincible and that everyone else is just 'whatever'. They have brainwashing too, just not on the same scale.
Tl;dr- I'm actually in full agreement with you.
South Korean music
On a more light hearted note- I'm actually beginning to believe that Psy is Kim Jong Un on his days off.
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They have no internet
Well according to a report, they do have some form of internet, closer to an internat, of course completely isolated from the rest of the world. Apparently it's designed so that Kim Jong-un's name is in slightly bigger font all the time.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20445632 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20445632)
Really, really fascinating stuff.
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Americans are brought up told their country is the best in the world, they're invincible and that everyone else is just 'whatever'. They have brainwashing too, just not on the same scale.
No, they are not, and I advise you live in this country for 20 years instead of watching the news before you start spewing bull crap like this.
Milsap, that is a seriously ignorant comment and as I've been telling you for the past... I've lost count of the years! I've been telling you for a while to get your head out of your ass and stop assuming you know everything about American and how Americans are brought up.
I can easily make the counterargument that British people are indoctrinated into believing immigrants are the bane of all society and how there is nothing wrong with being either recluse or a xenophobe. In fact, the very last thing is almost encouraged. You want to base it off of media? Fine, I'll base everything off of my own experience inside of your country compared to my lifetime in America. But you do not see me doing so because I know for a fact that the general populace of the UK is not like that, despite some people on this forum really trying their best to convince me otherwise at points.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Sincerely,
An American that believes his country makes god awful decisions constantly but would still rather live here than anywhere else.
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Just do what we've been doing for the past god knows how many decades: Pretend they don't exist.
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i know this is an old topic but i just get so excited when n korea comes up
see last time i left the N. Korea debate like if they woulda tried anything china woulda steamrolled them to oblivion
did that change at all since the last time?? like i really can't see china letting a noisy renegade w/ an unreliable track record anywhere near attacking the west cos that'd jeopardise a lot of trade and good footing w/ the west esp. in the name of communism
not to mention im not sure the west would be pleased about s. korea getting in the crossfire as if s. korea isn't fed up with n. korea's antics either
like i think in order to comment on whether north korea is a problem you really need to have a better idea of the general culture and climate over that side of the world and in order to say "yes it is a problem" you need to take into account the fact that most of the east would just sit there and let n. korea just attack the west
"sure guys blow up our biggest trade partners especially the ones who we have doing silly dances for rare earth minerals"
i mean i'll have egg squarely in my face if/when n. korea tries it on but even so is there any reason they'd actually try it on other than they want to see their country nuked to oblivion if a nuke ever made it to the usa let alone the fact that getting that missle over russia and china would be hard at best
Exactly. I seem to remember Vietnam being a HUGE success.
it was a failure because it was a place where the invading countries' ideals didn't work and the vietnamese made sure of it
like russia did the same w/ afghanistan back when they were Soviet
they got into a war they realised they couldn't win and had to sort of pull out but no-one talks about that hardly ever??????
why is it these topics always derail into "AMERICA the INVADING" its like the british empire never happened
No, they are not, and I advise you live in this country for 20 years instead of watching the news before you start spewing bull crap like this.
Milsap, that is a seriously ignorant comment and as I've been telling you for the past... I've lost count of the years! I've been telling you for a while to get your head out of your ass and stop assuming you know everything about American and how Americans are brought up.
I can easily make the counterargument that British people are indoctrinated into believing immigrants are the bane of all society and how there is nothing wrong with being either recluse or a xenophobe. In fact, the very last thing is almost encouraged. You want to base it off of media? Fine, I'll base everything off of my own experience inside of your country compared to my lifetime in America. But you do not see me doing so because I know for a fact that the general populace of the UK is not like that, despite some people on this forum really trying their best to convince me otherwise at points.
Thank you and have a nice day.
Sincerely,
An American that believes his country makes god awful decisions constantly but would still rather live here than anywhere else.
hear hear
has milsap ever been to the usa or will he not go cos he's scared of liking it
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The current, how should I say it, dictator, is saying, "Let's talk"
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has milsap ever been to the usa or will he not go cos he's scared of liking it
Been to New York, Newark, Chicago, Dallas, Oklahoma and Oregon.
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What about the rest of the U.S.?
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I think South Korea should just send Psy into North Korea... that will sort everything out.
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Been to New York, Newark, Chicago, Dallas, Oklahoma and Oregon.
I know at least 4 of those cities aren't at all brainwashed like you thinking
And if they were then they're one in a million
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Been to New York, Newark, Chicago, Dallas, Oklahoma and Oregon.
did you talk loudly about how all americans are stupid and brainwashed while you were there
or did you not mention it to anyone and enjoy your time there and not further the embarrassing stereotype of the complaining idiot british "lanzarote/benidorm/marbella" holidaymaker limey
dont forget its not like the uk is one to talk about brainwashing and NATIONALISM and THE FLAG
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I fail to see how any of this has to do with North Korea. I appreciate what I say may be a little misguided, but that's who I am, okay? Okay.
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dont forget its not like the uk is one to talk about brainwashing and NATIONALISM and THE FLAG
Whilst I don't agree that Americans are being brainwashed, British people made less fuss over the Royal Wedding and stuff than America did, and it's not even Americas monarchy!
But Americans make just as big of a deal over their flag, and don't even get me started on July 4th...
(Edit: Also, just a small hate of mine, when Americans say 'God Bless America' in that southern accent, I heard a few people say it in California; it's almost cringeworthy... But I like America, it gave us Six Flags ;D)
But, on the topic of Korea, I think America needs to step back a little, fair enough have a back-up plan, but I think a lot of the problem is Korea isn't coping with the pressure of having a superpower watching over them, just as a person wouldn't make sensible decisions if a gun was being pointed at them at all times.
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You have a point there.
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But, on the topic of Korea, I think America needs to step back a little, fair enough have a back-up plan, but I think a lot of the problem is Korea isn't coping with the pressure of having a superpower watching over them, just as a person wouldn't make sensible decisions if a gun was being pointed at them at all times.
Kim Jong Un is paranoid. NK never grew out of that Imperialistic way of rule that the other Asian countries ditched just after WWII/Vietnam. You know they're getting out of hand when even China is telling them to grow up.
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I fail to see how any of this has to do with North Korea. I appreciate what I say may be a little misguided, but that's who I am, okay? Okay.
maybe we can try attacking the main part of my first post instead then i.e. the long boring diatribe i wrote about The Situation Around Korea??? //shrugs// like im not writing it out again
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Whilst I don't agree that Americans are being brainwashed, British people made less fuss over the Royal Wedding and stuff than America did, and it's not even Americas monarchy!
But Americans make just as big of a deal over their flag, and don't even get me started on July 4th...
This is news to me
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The same way cops enforce the law, and how honestly, nobody likes them, America tries to enforce rules, and nobody likes them for that. America should back off a bit, and I'm sure that's what we're starting to do. North Korea wouldn't go far with its threats, for in the beginning and in the end the country is alone.
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Milsap and Draghost are right, its not like NK will start Korean War II.
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It seems like people aren't mentioning that Kim Jong Un is threatening that to win over the NK public and military, otherwise they would try and overthrow him. Apprently.
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They don't need winning over. They already think that HE is the God and the West is the bad guys.
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It seems that NK is brainwashed, they think that no one can touch them, they think that the west is evil. It's not exactly helping my country's image when we are interfering and sticking our noses in at every chance we get. We (America) should allow them to solve their own problems, and maybe interfere if they threaten even more war than they do now.
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North Korea is very isolated. They don't have the internet, they have a government-run internal network that only allows access to state news and the weather as well as an internal email system. Their reluctance to trade with anybody means the people are starving and a vast majority of people outside of Pyongyang are very poor.
The only people who can really save North Korea are the people going against the government. But that's difficult when your leader is God.