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Misc => Gaming => Topic started by: Richard and Blaziken on October 08, 2014, 16:50
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Okay I held out on making this because these topics never go anywhere, but I need friends to play this with and I see you all out there with Smash Bros., hogging the fun to yourself! C'MON AND SHARE!
Okay, so add your 3DS FC and just post in the topic when you're free to play I guess. Also what rules you play by. Being on IRC is cool too if you wanna chat between matches.
1547-5283-8177 - Richard (Ω Stages only, no items, 3 stock, no customs)
2638-0810-1005 - Shaymin (Free For All)
3067-6449-6265 - Raphetty (Free For All)
1993-8285-1588 - Lord Raven (Final Destination, Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Arena Ferox, Rainbow Road, Prism Tower, Brinstar... basically no "stupid stages", no items, 3 stock, custom movesets only)
3566-1602-6874 - RubyRobin (Unspecified)
2492-5283-7343 - E.K.A.N.S. (Any stages, no items, 3 stock, no customs)
3969-5646-2355 - Xagor (Unspecified)
0602-6661-8443 - Blaze/SB2K (No game yet)
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yo so ssb4 is super awesome and even though i'm awful i'm totally down for playing w/ u guys
most of yall will already have my fc but 2638-0810-1005
as for like rules and junk i rly don't care lmao :y i like playing it for laughs and fun so yeah i'm down for whatever
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My FC is 3067 - 6449 - 6265
I can't seem to get the online mode to work though. Rules don't matter for me at this stage as I'm still learning the game, I have not played any of the earlier games in the series.
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1993-8285-1588
Omega stages and battlefield only, 3-5 Stock, and I only do custom moves (no custom items).
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I had some awesome matches against Hahex, Loz and JSM earlier, they were all very fun! Hope to catch you guys too some time, Smash is so much more fun with friends!
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I don't WANT it now that the dog that made me cry as a kid is in it. I am not joking here. I HAD to be stopped once from throwing the Zapper at the TV because he kept laughing at me.
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0602-6661-8443 - Blaze/SB2K
I'm up for anything, since playing out different scenarios can give you more experience and make you better. Please note that I don't have the game yet and have to wait until Christmas like with X last year.
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Literally /just/ got it (as in updating for launching it now xD) so not sure which rules I like, but FC is 3566-1602-6874
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I'd say I'll post in here in the near future but by the time I get it, Smash hype will have died down completely akin to ACNL and when I got that xD
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Let me just say I can't wait to get it, because Duck Hunt looks amazing.
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^Well why on this forsaken earth are you still posting in here? Go moan about how a dog in a game scarred you elsewhere, this isn't the place for it.
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i remember when i hit lavender town and saw the ghost i turned off my gameboy instantly because mega punch kept missing instead of running away
video games are scary, bro
also richard creamed me yesterday. it could mean i was either tired as hell or i need to get better, hopefully its both!
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I have the game, but considering I'm in a completely different country than a majority of ya'll I don't think playing online would be very pleasant. For the record though I very much enjoy Smash Run. Even playing Solo it's a blast.
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Captian Jigglypuff, if you would, can you only post if you want to join discussion on Smash Bros please instead of the rants? Oh, and please don't swear -- I'll delete your posts on sight next time, it's against the rules after all.
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I was saying duck hunt is looking amazing because I have a friend who let me try him. Let me say that Nintendo impressed me with him.
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You can change the controls. X/Y can be changed to grab and shield.
Well, thanks for filling me in, but can I do that on the demo? Different controls will take some getting used to, and I'm hoping to do just that.
I think I'll be ready for a battle, maybe 2 weeks from now? I'll keep you posted.
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Unfortunately the demo won't let you change controls, but I played the demo every day until release and I swapped grab to X and have been enjoying it much more than when it was L.
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Unfortunately the demo won't let you change controls, but I played the demo every day until release and I swapped grab to X and have been enjoying it much more than when it was L.
I really like having X for the instances where i need to tap jump for shorthopping. Binding it to Y might not be a bad idea though
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Mine is: 3969-5646-2355. (Different from old one because JPN 3DS).
Adding people now.
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Xagor if you're down for some Smashing now, I've added you
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Can't promise I'll be much good right now, but should be up for that.
I'm the one with the Japanese name now.
Edit: Sorry, no point going on tonight, I'm just playing absolutely terribly. Not worth your time.
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Hey no worries buddy, it's all in fun. Thanks for the matches, good games. :)
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Really shouldn't play when I'm so tired / sleepy. Really rusty with the game anyway, and have a long long way to go before becoming decent like in the older games.
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Rich, maybe you can do what Del did with the X/Y FC topic, and put everyone's codes and match types on the original post.
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Done. If anyone's down for some matches tonight, I'm available
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^I'm guessing you'll wait to put mine down until I get the game.
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I just missed your post, added now
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I've added all your friend codes.
It seems that Xagor and I have already fought!
My rules are:
3 stock
Either X or Ω stages
No items
Nothing custom
Best 2/3
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What do you people have against custom moves anyway?
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What do you people have against custom moves anyway?
I can't speak for everyone, but personally, I feel the challenge should come from the opponent's skill level against your skill level. Adding in unknowns in a fighting game makes it more random, so rather than anticipating each other's moves and reacting accordingly, you're caught off-guard by something you couldn't possibly see coming unless you learn the specifics about every single custom move of every single character. It's already a lot remembering the specifics of every character without customs, and since competitive standard does not use customs, learning them is unnecessary for most people.
Not saying people shouldn't play customs if they enjoy it, but it should be a mutual enjoyment for them, because the competitive standard doesn't use them.
That aside, the custom moves aren't balanced very well. Link's Meteor Bomb is ridiculously OP in the right hands, for example.
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That just sounds like a lot of "I refuse to adapt."
Part of mind games should be "which custom is he using?" And on top of that if Custom moves get fleshed out into the metagame more it should be clearer what custom moves are most likely to be used character through character. Sometimes you'll be caught off guard but c'est la vie, it'll only be for a moment.
I think a lot of competitive standards have little against custom moves of any kind. I'm not going to spring out a Pokemon comparison right now because Pokemon is probably the most atypical example of a metagame that works despite its flaws, but the custom moves are easily attainable and there is no variance between them. It's not like custom equipment. "It's too much to remember or keep track of" is a very flawed excuse in terms of competitive play.
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Aside from not wanting or needing to memorize all the specials, my other point in that many of them are unbalanced is very valid. Yoshi in a nutshell is literally broken with certain specials and needs a patch to be fixed. Link's Meteor Bomb puts a stop to recovery at all. Not all customs are unbalanced, but enough of them are that it's not worth the hassle when I don't need custom moves to be good at the game and have fun, regardless of what it sounds like.
Further, I do play customs every time we've ever fought in Smash, and I think you can attest that I'm very capable of adapting.
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When I said "adapt" I didn't mean in-game adaptation. I meant in terms of changes to the metagame. There is a difference.
Your point of surprises is mitigated by forcing players in tournaments and whatnot to reveal the custom moveset they will be using. But the moves themselves have a description of what they do so again, "it's too much to remember" can't be a valid argument.
Yoshi in a nutshell is literally broken with certain specials and needs a patch to be fixed. Link's Meteor Bomb puts a stop to recovery at all. Not all customs are unbalanced, but enough of them are that it's not worth the hassle
Your view sounds very reactionary. In terms of tournaments, these things may seem broken now but the metagame will evolve. If you begin to see more and more of these sets, then the idea is that you will approach characters like link and Yoshi differently than before if they are using these customs, and using regulations to have players reveal their custom movesets while picking the character will mitigate many of these issues. 2 is also not a lot. Bans on those are easily enforceable.
Let the metagame run its course. It's only been what, three weeks since the western release?
when I don't need custom moves to be good at the game and have fun, regardless of what it sounds like.
What does this mean?
Further, I do play customs every time we've ever fought in Smash, and I think you can attest that I'm very capable of adapting.
Then I don't see the issue? This idea seems to contradict the fact that you've said this:
Adding in unknowns in a fighting game makes it more random, so rather than anticipating each other's moves and reacting accordingly, you're caught off-guard by something you couldn't possibly see coming unless you learn the specifics about every single custom move of every single character.
Just because you're not willing to put the time and effort to understand how every character's customs work doesn't make it a bad or unknown feature. Competitive play is thrown off when there's elements of randomness, not things that are unknown. If it were more like Pokemon or Brawl w/ tripping then it would be an issue but it's very very very different in concept to those. In this case you get a result that's consistent from match to match.
Many of them are just faster/slower/non damaging versions of the same custom, you're not deal with 384 different characters with Palutena levels of variance. If you request to see the effects and whatnot, then you get a feel for what the custom does and you can get a feel for how it'll be played. Too much information does not detract from competitive play.
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I stated why I don't play with customs, and why I think there's no online competitive mode that allows them. The customs aren't too much to remember in theory, I could memorize all of them, but what I'm saying is that no online competitive format requires me to do so, so I don't, and that's why most people don't play with them. If there was an online competitive format that used them, I'd have memorized more of them by now. I don't have to adapt to a custom metagame because you're the only friend I play in Smash (out of about 30) that uses customs.
I still think that too many of the customs are unblanced for me to enjoy playing with them, and so I don't, but I'm sure people will work a metagame around it if they're dedicated enough. I just prefer playing in an environment with no variation to movesets so that both players are on equal grounds in terms of knowing what the opponent can do. This can work if, like you said, both players show/tell their custom moves before the match starts, but not everyone is willing to do that. It's not a huge deal overall, and even in fighting matches with you, the different customs you used never bothered me too much, I was more saying why I think people aren't fans of them.
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I think the only reason that customs aren't played with in For Glory has to do with custom items more than custom movesets. Custom Items are a definite ban because that gets into a lot of luck based things, but in general I think it's too early to stay that some customs are too powerful. Remember when Ike and/or Toon Link were considered really good characters at the start of Brawl?
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You may be right about that, and I think it will have its own metagame if people desire it, but it's not something I particularly enjoy, and from what I've seen, that's the popular opinion. I will say that it can be fun, so people should try it out before making up their mind, but it's not for me.
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I hate customs for more than just interpersonal (inter-player?) reasons and the different experience of the match. I hate customs because it's uncharted terrority. I prefer to use the familiar attacks of the character I use. I don't want to have to learn or try out my character's other special moves. I think it taints the character, that it's pure in its original form. My character's original attacks work well for me. I don't see the need for a change.
I also don't want to see people writing up competitive articles that dictate which sets are best for the character, which equipment, etc. like in Pokemon. Most of the time, you just need to use the character well and make the right calls. That's why the SSB "metagame" is less of a metagame than Pokemon. It's not as step-by-step or number-based. And getting KO'd isn't as inevitable in SSB as it is in Pokemon. You can sidestep attacks till the world ends. Calling it a metagame disgusts me, honestly. You can correct me, but those are just my views.
...Phew, that was long. I normally don't go off like that.
Anyway, on-topic with the actual discussion here, I was only wondering if anyone is available for a battle right now, at 1:00 in the morning?
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I'm down for some matches, EKANS. I'll host the game
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I hate customs for more than just interpersonal (inter-player?) reasons and the different experience of the match. I hate customs because it's uncharted terrority. I prefer to use the familiar attacks of the character I use. I don't want to have to learn or try out my character's other special moves. I think it taints the character, that it's pure in its original form. My character's original attacks work well for me. I don't see the need for a change.
That's fair enough I guess...
I also don't want to see people writing up competitive articles that dictate which sets are best for the character, which equipment, etc. like in Pokemon. Most of the time, you just need to use the character well and make the right calls. That's why the SSB "metagame" is less of a metagame than Pokemon. It's not as step-by-step or number-based. And getting KO'd isn't as inevitable in SSB as it is in Pokemon. You can sidestep attacks till the world ends. Calling it a metagame disgusts me, honestly. You can correct me, but those are just my views.
There is a competitive scene in Smash, therefore you call it a metagame. There's no spectrum of metagaming; it either is or it isn't. At any rate I have a lot of issues with competitive Pokemon but if you want to argue that we can do it in another thread, since I feel like this thread is more of an all-encompassing smash thread...
btw Rich I have seen more towards allowing customs run their course, then splitting off Smash than people outright disallowing customs. That's based on smashboards and serenes forest (though the latter is a fire emblem fansite so i won't get too carried away there). A lot of opinion is to watch everything unfold; knee jerk banning of things is the wrong way to go about things in infancy at any rate.
The most legitimate argument I've seen is for tournament hosts being required to unlock everything on the WiiU smash. I've spent 130 hours trying to unlock everything in smash 3DS (although maybe 40 of that has been spent online) and I still have like 40 customs left. 3DS smash tournaments aren't as big an issue because there are ways to make things go faster for the particular player you want, but tournament hosts won't have everything unlocked as easily. Here's hoping there are faster ways to unlock things in the WiiU smash.
At any rate I was thinking philosophically for the moment and I'm praying that Mr. Burns makes it into WiiU Smash.
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I'm not saying they should be banned, I was mostly just arguing about why I don't like them. I'm sure there will be a metagame for them, and when I said competitive standard, I meant online modes, so that's my mistake there. It's a preference thing, and I prefer standard movesets. I'm honestly not in a mood to debate this any further since I don't actually disagree with most of what you're saying and I think you took a lot of what I was saying the wrong way, partly to do with my wording, for which I apologize.
Edit: Good games, EKANS!
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I agree, nice battles. Even though I didn't land a single kill (couldn't even Destiny Bond ya), I enjoyed how you evaded my grabs and had a consistent strategy going. Every time you took damage, you instantly learned how to prevent the same thing from happening again. Not to mention Greninja is top tier, whereas Ganondorf is low tier.
It's a shame that Nasty CPU Greninja isn't as formidable... I really wish CPU's could go higher than level 9 :(
Oh ya, I edited my rules. It's best 2/3 now. I don't want to play too many matches. Otherwise I keep on playing matches with the same person again and again worrying that if I stop playing, they'll think I'm a coward.
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I'm not saying they should be banned, I was mostly just arguing about why I don't like them. I'm sure there will be a metagame for them, and when I said competitive standard, I meant online modes, so that's my mistake there. It's a preference thing, and I prefer standard movesets. I'm honestly not in a mood to debate this any further since I don't actually disagree with most of what you're saying and I think you took a lot of what I was saying the wrong way, partly to do with my wording, for which I apologize.
For what it's worth, most of the points I quoted were @EKANS, I was just telling you what I've seen.
EKANS you wanna go at it? I can turn off customs but I don't use anything earth shattering (just a Marth regular B change and an Up+B with more height and no damage, and I change Ike's Eruption to Tempest and Quick Draw to Close Combat).
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Update 1.0.4 is out and it ruins Greninja, along with "balancing" (nerfing) many others. Done with competitive Smash, but it was a fun month.
1v1 For Glory: 1613/1777 - 90.77% Win Rate
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Update 1.0.4 is out and it ruins Greninja, along with "balancing" (nerfing) many others. Done with competitive Smash, but it was a fun month.
1v1 For Glory: 1613/1777 - 90.77% Win Rate
what did they do to him?
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Down-Air can no longer be cancelled and has bad end lag
Up-B windbox severely nerfed
Up-Smash now has horrible end lag
The Up-Smash nerf is the one that really matters to me. While the other two are somewhat annoying, I don't think they ruined the character, just made him harder to use. The Up-Smash nerf, however, is horrible. It was his best kill move and only good Smash attack.
For a full list of changes, read here (http://www.esportsmax.com/news/smash-bros-3ds-patch-104-notes-assembled-smash-community)
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Update 1.0.4 is out and it ruins Greninja, along with "balancing" (nerfing) many others. Done with competitive Smash, but it was a fun month.
(http://www.patientadvocates.com/sites/default/files/salt.jpg)
ahem
I don't understand the complaining about balance patches, do we really want to see something like Meta Knight in Brawl? Only time tells if characters are "ruined" or a metagame is unbalanced but some things in this game were absolutely ridiculous. Greninja could spam a lot of attacks en masse and not face any punishment or be prone to shield grabs during massive pressure because of just how little lag he got.
I'm finding it surprising you said something bad about M2K being defeatist but now that your favorite character was nerfed a little bit you no longer want to play competitive smash.
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Greninja wasn't nerfed "a little bit", it received 3 significant nerfs, and 2 of them greatly reduce its viability. Not allowing DAir to be cancellable with a Shadow Sneak is stupid because Shadow Sneak has horrible lag on it and is easily punishable, so they've removed DAir from being useful at all. Worse, Greninja's Up Smash was his only good kill move and giving it horrible lag has ruined it.
It's completely different. Being defeatist because you're losing and being upset over significant character nerfs aren't even comparable, so I'm not sure why you bring that up. Greninja is the only character I play, not just my favorite, and I feel like the nerf to Up Smash is enough on its own to make playing not enjoyable for me. Why is this an issue for you?
By the way, Greninja wasn't broken. ROB, Yoshi, Sonic, and Sheik were all good matchups against Greninja, and even a Lucario gave me trouble once. The nerf has stopped me from having fun with the character, and thus, the game, and that's sort of the point of games. It's weird, but when you ruin the only character I enjoy playing, I tend to stop having fun.
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He has pretty fast moves and he can edgeguard somewhat effectively with his aerials... I'm not saying Greninja was broken or anything but you're raining doom on the game because your favorite character was nerfed. I'm surprised he's the only character you enjoyed playing as though. Is it because he was so fast and could apply so much pressure with very little ability to be punished unless someone else was fast or had really strange hitboxes (ie ROB/Yoshi)? It's not like he can't kill with usmash, it just means you have to time it better and mind game people into it instead of spamming it.
I'm mainly making an issue of it because of how knee-jerk some of your reactions are to most metagames. You cast doom on the standard metagame before megas are even introduced to it and you say that customs are broken little over a month into competitive Smash 3DS play. Definitely just seems like more personal complaints than legitimate complaints.
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...Are you not the same person that showed us the leaked stats? Simple damage calculations can show that many of the new Mega Evolutions are broken. I'm pretty good about doing research on Pokemon when I call something broken, and if you'd like to debate me on that, I'd be happy to do it elsewhere since this isn't the topic for it.
I didn't say anything about the Smash metagame in regards to this update. I said I was done with competitive Smash because the nerfs are significant in the way that Greninja plays (and by extension, the way I play Greninja). Don't get me wrong - I can still win with Greninja. I played and won 5 more 1v1 FG matches against 4 different people after the update, and have never lost a single match to anyone here, but again, I don't have as much fun now since my character isn't as fun to play anymore. Halting the movement of a character that is supposed to be fast isn't fun to me, and I don't think there was a need for it.
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...Are you not the same person that showed us the leaked stats? Simple damage calculations can show that many of the new Mega Evolutions are broken. I'm pretty good about doing research on Pokemon when I call something broken, and if you'd like to debate me on that, I'd be happy to do it elsewhere since this isn't the topic for it.
Bruh, we don't know that
a) they'll be allowed in standard metagame after a few months
b) they'll be viable
Look back at a lot of pre-DP speculation and it doesn't even match up with what happened to the metagame a month later. You can theorymon all you want until it actually happens. That's just the nature of competitive things in general.
I didn't say anything about the Smash metagame in regards to this update. I said I was done with competitive Smash because the nerfs are significant in the way that Greninja plays (and by extension, the way I play Greninja). Don't get me wrong - I can still win with Greninja. I played and won 5 more 1v1 FG matches against 4 different people after the update, and have never lost a single match to anyone here, but again, I don't have as much fun now since my character isn't as fun to play anymore. Halting the movement of a character that is supposed to be fast isn't fun to me, and I don't think there was a need for it.
Damn that sucks, I guess i just read your thing about balancing/nerfing as passive-aggressive rather than actually hatred towards it.
Oh Rich can you update mine to say "no stupid stages"? Like I'm okay with Battlefield, Yoshi's Story, Arena Ferox, Rainbow Road, Prism Tower, Brinstar, etc but not like... Pac-Maze or Paper Mario.
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TBF, Greninja's Up-Smash was completely ridiculous. It covers his entire body by a decent amount with its range. Probably more frustrating to deal with than his shurikens. If its just as good as using all his other smash attacks, then there's no reason why you wouldn't use it all the time, so now there's just a little more opportunity cost.
I'm pretty OK with Greninja D-Air nerfs. It's similar in speed to, say, Link's and even though it has much less knockback, it bounces a few more times. It doesn't intuitively feel like a move that should be cancelable either. Up Special seems a little unjustified though. I never feel like it's seen as a particularly strong gimping tool, or the windbox is too situational to use effectively anyway so I don't quite see the point.
Bomb cancelling's gone, which I'm a bit sad about. Vectoring has also seemed to have disappeared as well. Should lead to safer combos but it makes me wonder why it was in the game in the first place, only to go after a month.
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It had terrible range on the sides and left him open before the nerf, now it's not even usable, and it was his only good Smash attack before, so he now has no good kill tools. Even if they had added some lag, I don't think the ten added frames of lag are justifiable.
Shadow Sneak had ridiculous end-lag already, so cancelling it with a Shadow Sneak was often more dangerous than not cancelling at all, and it was very punishable. I can't defend them removing this, though I'm not overly bothered either.
Hydro Pump, ironically, is the one nerf I'm okay with. I gimped the hell out of people with Hydro Pump, to the point that many people absolutely could not recover because of it.
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Oh, by the way. I got 3ds smash for christmas, so challenges may begin for me.
I'll restate that i'm up for whatever you guys want.
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It had terrible range on the sides and left him open before the nerf, now it's not even usable, and it was his only good Smash attack before, so he now has no good kill tools. Even if they had added some lag, I don't think the ten added frames of lag are justifiable.
Side smashes have a nice bit of range and come out pretty quick. Down smash is also instant on both sides, so that's also quite nice for punishing rolls. Then again, I don't know exact stats for when they kill, but side smash seems fairly reliable from what I can tell. I don't main Greninja though, so your opinion has a bit more weight over mine.