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Misc => Media => TV and Movies => Topic started by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 02:23

Title: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 02:23
Don't get me wrong, I'll watch the show and it IS well written plot wise (when it's NOT about football, beer, or Hank's strained relationship with his dad). I just find many things sickening about the show. Hank is a big arrogant self-centered jerk who has an unnatural obsession with propane, football, and beer. He called propane his "mistress" and he was "pimping propane." WHO does that?! He also never gave up the unwinable attempt to be respected by his dad, who is even WORSE, and keeps sucking up to him even when Cotton continues to abuse Hank. Hank also never supports Bobby and he is a hypocrite. The hypocrisy is the WORST thing about Hank Hill. He tells Bobby fat people "do not deserve respect and should be ridiculed" but yet Bill is "fat" and Hank demands Dale respect him. And Hank isn't exactly thin himself either. Hank is constantly talking about his high school football days WHICH happened THIRTY years ago when the show was on and calls breaking his ankle the worst day of his life. Really? The WORST day of your life was BREAKING your ankle? Not almost losing your wide during a skydiving accident?

Cotton is even worse. He abuses everyone except Bobby and his illegitimate son and he constantly demeaned women ALL THE TIME! His eldest avoided it due to him being in Japan. I was actually glad when Cotton was killed off.

And why is everyone so horrible to Bill? It's because of his so called "friends" he mostly wants to kill himself. Bobby and Luanne are about the ONLY people who have ever made Bill feel worthwhile.

And that's my issue with this show. Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: glash101 on August 16, 2013, 03:23
I feel the same.Bill has problems.You should contact the studios of adult swim to alert them.And yes,everyone does get pwned by Cotton a lot.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 03:51
I think the experience of this show is slightly enhanced when you watch it as if Hank Hill has Aspergers Syndrome and Peggy has Narcisstic Personality Disorder

In terms of plot at least.  It makes it cringe worthy if you're looking for a laugh.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 03:54
I think the experience of this show is slightly enhanced when you watch it as if Hank Hill has Aspergers Syndrome and Peggy has Narcisstic Personality Disorder

In terms of plot at least.  It makes it cringe worthy if you're looking for a laugh.

Hank having ASPERGER'S?! I find THAT offensive! I have Asperger's and have friends with it and we DON'T act like Hank!
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 04:03
Probably because your personality is different

He was shaped by a more negative/abusive experience than you were as well, so obvious you're not gonna act like him.  He's also a grown-ass man
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 04:22
Perhaps my personality IS different but Hank does not have ANY of the symptoms of Asperger's. He has no sensory issues and he has average social skills. Both are classic signs of the disorder.

I still think Cotton is the worst because of his idea that just because he is a WWII vet, he can do whatever he wants and no one has the right to stop him. Let's count the many offenses he has done, shall we?
1. Constantly abuses those around him.
2. Says REALLY racist things to people of other ethnicities especially Asians.
3. Actually made his second wife light a cigar and puff it so it would be ready for him.
4. Calls Peggy "Hank's Wife".
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 05:00
He's pretty socially awkward at times and he is very prone to obsession.  Seems to give a very aspie-like feel at times which makes it hard to stomach him at times.  I know Aspies that have average social skills btw, and you would think by 40 he would actually have average social skills.  It's not a very well-defined disorder in the first place, so you can't necessarily classify all Aspies as people with one particular set of symptoms.

Cotton is also your prototypical american old man.  I dunno where you're from or how old you are but I know for a fact that many old people tend to be like that.  Cotton's obviously more extreme about it, but in general people tend to tolerate their old grandparents despite all of that because nothing's going to get through to them lol  Probably was more abusive earlier, but I don't think Hank particularly cared overall.  The entire series is a jab at the "standard american lifestyle" with lots of simplicity so the fact that you really don't like the football/beer/father relationship episodes really shows you kinda miss the point of many things in this show.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 12:02
There's NO excuse for Cotton's actions. There is NEVER an excuse for abuse. Abuse is abuse no matter who the perpetrator is. That is the source of Hank's issue. In the flashbacks on the show that show Hank younger, he clearly has social skills in that he is on a sports team which many Aspies don't like to do. And except when it came to personal issues, Hank never had problems talking to people. I have better communication skills than many Aspies (people with Asperger's) but I can't do it all the time. Hank can also recognize body language and facial expressions very well all the time WHICH no Aspie can do. That is why I KNOW Hank is NOT an Aspie and it is an insult to say that he is. I mean Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory is more Aspie than Hank ever WILL be.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes on August 16, 2013, 13:59
what do you think about dale and his paranoias about the government

Quote
I mean Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory is more Aspie than Hank ever WILL be.

(http://i.imgur.com/tya3zma.jpg)
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: sylar on August 16, 2013, 14:29
I mean Sheldon Cooper from The Big Bang Theory is more Aspie than Hank ever WILL be.

what the heck is wrong with you
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Joeno on August 16, 2013, 14:44
Hank can also recognize body language and facial expressions very well all the time WHICH no Aspie can do. That is why I KNOW Hank is NOT an Aspie and it is an insult to say that he is.

Having had the clinical diagnosis and having been through the mill for it, I can clearly and definitively say that you are incorrect here. As well as when you claim anyone who has Aspergers has no social skills.

I actually find categorically stating that quite offensive.

True, it might be more difficult. But they're things you can develop (something a lot of people do anyway). You can get better at them, develop social skills, and function quite normally, diagnosed or undiagnosed, and Hank's behaviour in King of the Hill is - considering his environment - understandable in that context. If anything, his response to change and difficulty with anything not fitting in with his view of the world reinforce that.

If anything, that's probably a better path than what you claim anyone with Aspergers should have followed. By choice or not, he would have done his best to learn how to fit in and live a normal life. Throwing up your hands and saying 'I've got Aspergers, I don't need to know how to do this and don't try, just let it be' seems less worthwhile... in a way lazy and entitled. Striving to change that enriches your life and makes it easier to accomplish more. See it as a challenge, not just a handicap you will always have to live with, as the world usually won't care.

I mean, for me personally, I went from write-off to moving to a different country, getting my dream job and living a good life - something few people would expect me to ever do. Based on your description, that could never happen, with the restrictions you place.

They're skills that you can develop and teach yourself. Hank's awkwardness and stubbornness point towards him quite possibly having done so, in part because that's just how things were. To say that's impossible and insulting is an insult to everyone who has - knowingly or unknowingly - actually done so.

Rant over
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 18:12
There's NO excuse for Cotton's actions. There is NEVER an excuse for abuse. Abuse is abuse no matter who the perpetrator is.  That is the source of Hank's issue.
I can't recall if there's childhood flashbacks of him abusing Hank.  Either way, Hank's adulthood has him pulling a blind eye to Cotton's actions because he's old and he won't listen to other people.  It does not excuse it but it is something that happens quite a bit in real life.

Quote
In the flashbacks on the show that show Hank younger, he clearly has social skills in that he is on a sports team which many Aspies don't like to do.
It's not hard to go undiagnosed.  I highly doubt Cotton would go out of his way to diagnose him.  I'm not saying he does have Aspergers but I wouldn't rule out the possibility.  It definitely does add somewhat of a layer to his character.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 19:18
I never said aspies have no social skills. I said we have FEW social skills. Hank just doesn't fit the diagnosis of Asperger's. Dale on the other hand does and Bill in a minor way. Hank is just plain arrogant in that he ALWAYS introduces himself as "assistant manager of Strickland Propane!" Peggy did something similar but it wasn't ALL the time! And I don't care if people turn a blind eye to their abusers but everyone who has been abused will eventually get so fed up that they'll fight back and tell their abuser off so much that the abused actually feels better. Hank made excuses for Cotton all the time and if he DID go off on his dad, he felt bad and had to apologize to COTTON. This isn't right and no one should have allowed someone who served in the military act that way. If you are a vet, you should be setting examples of how a true American should be. No arguments about it.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes on August 16, 2013, 19:24
i'd say mike judge would be spinning in his grave but he's still alive so he's probably spinning around in big piles of money instead


listen captain jigglypuff how about i phone up hank hill so you can tell him off how does that sound
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: sylar on August 16, 2013, 19:25
idk i dont really watch koth. its a funny show from what i have seen and i havent rly seen cotton but it sounds like hank is dealin with some form of battered person syndrome or something similar? you cant get angry and blame someone for psychological things like that. people who are abused tend to have different mindsets toward their abusers than people who werent victims of abuse from the abuser in question.

also like everyone else is saying theres no set criteria for aspergers. some people with it have bad social skills, some are actually pretty decent around people.

i think the introduction of ASSISTANT MANAGER OF STRICKLAND PROPANE is just a running gag

like obviously its interesting to think of him as someone with aspergers and adds depth to character like muhed said but uh
i think youre takin the entire show a little bit too seriously here man
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 19:34
The whole introduction Hank gives is the BIGGEST example of his arrogance and self-importance. He called "getting to state the greatest of" his "life" and not the birth of his only child. He said this at least four times during the course of the show. That is wrong on SOOOO many levels. Football coming  before family? I mean Bobby could get hit by a bus and die and Hank would still call breaking hos ankle the worst day of his life! Even after nearly having Peggy die or seeing Buckley get killed isn't considered worse? Hank Hill sure has some messed up priorities.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: sylar on August 16, 2013, 19:34
you need to calm down
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 19:37
Just so I get a little bit of context, since I got no response from this point:

How old are you Captain Jigglypuff, which country are you from, and how many southerners and old people have you interacted with in your lifetime?  King of the Hill is a sort of satire of the "standard american/southern/patriotic lifestyle" in my eyes.  I lived in Bel Air, Maryland, which was at least 90-95% white people.  King of the hill is cringe worthy to watch at times because it reminds me of when we lived there, but it's also quite indicative of the kind of personalities you encounter in these kinds of places.

I haven't personally interacted with a lot of old people, but I know *many* sorts of grandparents from these sorts of families tend to act much more like Cotton (of course Cotton is the extreme) than, say, Abe Simpson.  If you're comparing it to the Simpsons, it's really a satire of a much different kind of family/town than the Simpsons tries to pull off.

In other words, the context may actually be lost upon you and you are heavily misunderstanding the show.  You can interpret Hank as having Aspergers with quite a bit less validity as Hank having the standard American upbringing.  Obviously I was making a little bit of a joke when I said that but the way you got offended really struck a chord with me.  But now I'm just annoyed not only by the fact that you think Aspergers folk are disabled to an extent that they cannot be functioning people like Hank Hill but by the fact that you're watching a show you obviously hate and aren't really understanding quite a bit of the context and satire it's going for.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Joeno on August 16, 2013, 19:38
Repeat to yourself, it's just a show, I should really just relax (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ugebzq3juE)
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Sebastian Moran on August 16, 2013, 19:38
and yet i never knew that King of the Hill was such an introspective program about the problematic corruption of human beings and their inability to understand each other while trying to cope with their own mental traumas or afflictions.
 
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes on August 16, 2013, 19:39
six am and already the boy aint right
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 19:44
The site I'd normally post like this got shut down, sylar. I just need an outlet.

But seriously, Hank has on several occasions let his friends get seriously hurt and refuse to help them until it became more serious. Best example was when Bill was lifting weights and hurt himself. Bill could clearly be heard screaming for help but Hank ignored it and let the steroids bodybuilders make things worse for hours before Hank stepped in finally. Bill kept screaming but it went ignored. No wonder Bill would rather be dead. Even his so called friends don't care enough to check on him when they hear him screaming. Bill also never got thanked in ANY way after saving the Hills.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 19:48
I think you have problems with selective reading.  I asked three very simple questions that may or may not impede in not only your enjoyment but understanding of the show.  I think, either way, you will not understand why Hank probably didn't look out for Bill or anything, because Bill's character is supposed to represent something, but whatever.  I'm really not going to take the time to argue if you can't answer simple questions.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes on August 16, 2013, 19:49
captain jigglypuff what do you think of when cotton calls his newborn son Good Hank


The site I'd normally post like this got shut down, sylar. I just need an outlet.

whyd it get shut down??????????
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 20:08
I was typing when the three questions went up. I wasn't ignoring them. It was just bad timing. I am answering them now. I live in the Pittsburgh, Pa area and I have met many people the same age as Cotton. None of them were as horrible as Cotton was nor did they verbally and physically abuse everyone they came into contact with. Calling his youngest "Good Hank" should have awoken Hank to realize his own father never cared about him and he should stop trying to get Cotton's approval. Hank's messed up priorities of putting what's best for him and football just sickens me. I just find it very hypocritical of him to claim to put family and friends first but ignore them when they need him most and allows problems to become worse than before.


And I have no idea why the site was shut down.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 16, 2013, 20:09
It's on Adult Swim every night.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Liam on August 16, 2013, 20:09
Boomhauer's cool, I guess.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 16, 2013, 20:31
I was typing when the three questions went up. I wasn't ignoring them. It was just bad timing. I am answering them now. I live in the Pittsburgh, Pa area and I have met many people the same age as Cotton. None of them were as horrible as Cotton was nor did they verbally and physically abuse everyone they came into contact with. Calling his youngest "Good Hank" should have awoken Hank to realize his own father never cared about him and he should stop trying to get Cotton's approval. Hank's messed up priorities of putting what's best for him and football just sickens me. I just find it very hypocritical of him to claim to put family and friends first but ignore them when they need him most and allows problems to become worse than before.

And I have no idea why the site was shut down.

First of all, ha ha ha how bout them playoffs Steelers fans

Second off, yeah, Pittsburgh isn't quite like the south can be.  Of course you're not going to understand it then, you haven't been influenced to the specific type of old guy Cotton is.  War vet, was around during the civil rights movement and may have opposed it, probably has quite a bit of bigotry, etc.  Earlier in life he probably wasn't as crazy as he is today, and as time wore on his war injuries took a toll on his health and frankly, a 70-80 year old war veteran will most likely feel super entitled and not give any sort of crap about how immoral he is or what his son thinks of him or anything.  I don't think they view it as abuse (well Peggy may but Peggy also has her issues with narcissism) so much as "can't teach an old dog new tricks" and just general senility resulting from old age.  I know many people who, when they watch the show, the whole Cotton thing kinda hits close to home.  Where they're just prejudiced and won't change, and the family's just waiting for them to keel over instead of doing something about it because that's actually more practical considering it's been tried before.

You being from Pittsburgh makes it more curious why you don't at least sympathize with the football aspect of it.  You may not approve of it but Pittsburgh fans are very die hard because their team has been historically pretty amazing since the 70s, so while yeah it seems stupid to you it's a very cultural thing everywhere especially when you have a team like the Cowboys or Steelers which have had dynasties in the Super Bowl era.

Claire it's on Netflix lol
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Milsap on August 17, 2013, 00:59
I always thought King of the Hill was quite funny. Especially Dale and Boomhauer. I try not to read too much into this kind of stuff. I just want to be entertained.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 17, 2013, 01:12
I think football is just a boring waste of time. All it is a stupid oval shaped ball falling a few yards away. It is too predictable and fans always act like the Steelers or ANY team for that matter are invincible just becayse they won a game or two but as soon as the team loses, the fans are like, "How did that happen?" and act as if the world is ending. Several people pay the players thousands of dollars on merchandise and yet don't give to charity. My local mall has the UGLIEST Rosenberger life sized bobble head for $6000. I am not k8dding. It makes me sick someone would waste THAT money on something so hideous but not to find a cure for cancer or AIDS.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Milsap on August 17, 2013, 01:32
American Football (Handegg) has its moments. My brother loves it but it's not something I can watch all the time. Too many ad breaks.

But isn't Hank Hill supposed to be the equivalent of a British lad though? Of course he's going to bang on about football, beer and such.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 17, 2013, 01:41
It's something you get used to, but the ad breaks are conveniently placed during the 40 seconds you have to call the play.  Which is why sometimes you see the ad cut off and go straight into the game.  There was something that prevented anything from getting in the way of a play because of some game a while back that got cut off by the network early (one team had a 10 point lead with 3 minutes left in the fourth, game cut off, then that team lost lol)

I think football is just a boring waste of time. All it is a stupid oval shaped ball falling a few yards away. It is too predictable and fans always act like the Steelers or ANY team for that matter are invincible just becayse they won a game or two but as soon as the team loses, the fans are like, "How did that happen?" and act as if the world is ending. Several people pay the players thousands of dollars on merchandise and yet don't give to charity. My local mall has the UGLIEST Rosenberger life sized bobble head for $6000. I am not k8dding. It makes me sick someone would waste THAT money on something so hideous but not to find a cure for cancer or AIDS.

First of all, you are incredibly lucky I am not tearing you a new one for calling it stupid.  You're allowed to not like it, but to call it stupid is incredibly dumb.  Go play Madden and see how many interceptions you throw if it's really just throwing a stupid oval shaped ball around and then come back to me.  If you think it's too stupid to even do that*, then you are a fairly close minded human being and it's not surprising to me at all that you just do not grasp King of the Hill.  I'm almost surprised that someone who plays Pokemon thinks that way because it's basically turn-based gameplay turned into a sport (requires a lot of sprinting and power on top of that and I don't think most athletes or athletic folk can even play football effectively because of the strategy involved) lol

*and if you really want to argue that it's stupid as hell then go start a thread and we can debate there; I've taught some UK players here that didn't think too highly of it about the game all of that and they can learn to appreciate it even if they don't watch it

Furthermore, football is still a major sport in this country and nothing you say is going to stop that from happening lol.  Don't mix your personal dislike of football with the quality of television; the fact is that to many people it's a big thing and I am almost surprised you don't see it living in Pittsburgh where people constantly scream SIXBURGH SIXBURGH to every other person on the streets.

Also, it's Roethlisberger, but that's okay.  I shouldn't bother countering the rest of your points because you're pretty far out of touch with reality as it stands.  Merchandising is a result of it being a business and I don't know how you don't understand that either.  Why do we spend money on Pokemon games and merchandise when we could be donating that money to NIH grants to look for cancer research?


I honestly, sincerely do not care whether or not you like the show.  It's clear to me that I would never trust a review from you though, because the whole sense of satire behind the show whooshes over your head which is what leads to those moments you do not understand.  Also, different experiences shape people differently, so what you can tolerate and what you find dumb often times is a part of someone's everyday life and they can still properly function.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 17, 2013, 01:57
The bobble head is seriously the ugliest thing ever to be created in one's likeness. It makes Ben literally look like Bizzaro with acid thrown onto the face and disfiguring it even more. Football has no probability to it at all.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Lord Raven on August 17, 2013, 02:00
I like the lack of acknowledgement that my post was more than just about football

I really should pull out of this thread when all I'm getting is at best a paragraph countering a minor point in a very irrelevant way
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 17, 2013, 02:11
If I don't like something, I just don't see why I can't voice it and have people not attack me for it. I mean I'm using my freedom and am not threatening to hurt anyone by saying I hate football. We all have things we hate so why should I stay quiet and force myself to be someone I'm not?
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: That Girl in the 'Roo Suit on August 17, 2013, 02:17
Guys, stay on topic, or I will lock this thread. If you have any issues with each other, take it to PM please. I'm not silencing anyone, I just want to keep this free of too much discontent.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Captain Jigglypuff on August 17, 2013, 02:47
Sorry. Didn't mean to go off topic a bit but I think it was necessary to show where I stand in my disgust with Hank Hill.
Title: Re: Issues I Have with King of the Hill
Post by: Joeno on August 17, 2013, 10:44
If I don't like something, I just don't see why I can't voice it and have people not attack me for it.

I am going to continue a bit more here as it's an important general (meta) point.

This is a discussion forum. One of the things you do here is discuss things. In this case, we're discussing people's opinions about King of the Hill.

If you don't like something, that's fine. If you don't like something and post about it on a forum like this, you can expect a discussion. Saying that people are attacking you over it when they disagree, write (long) arguments about it and post about it on here is wrong. They're not attacking, they're disagreeing.

What's even more frustrating, then, is when you just dismiss those arguments and focus on one small aspect in that post, ignoring the main arguments, and continuing to repeat your same opinions without actually engaging in the discussion.

You're not being attacked here. You're part of a discussion where you don't seem to like people disagreeing. That's different. It's fine if you don't want to end up in the discussion... just don't be surprised people will still respond and will continue the debate themselves.