I don't know if this has been brought up, but why don't we use the Smogon tiers, as they do vigorous playtesting and are considerably cleverer at competitive battling than us? I mean, we can't say that something 'dominates the metagame' unless we have played a large amount of matches with several other people in that metagame who know what they're doing, surely. You can theorymon all you like, but you actually have to playtest to see if something is broken.
Also, Smogon's NU tier is just what hasn't reached UU by usages. It's not balanced atm.
So we're editing a good tier list... because we want to be individual? Despite the fact this will most probably worsen it?
Smogon's list is based upon usage, which is why I think OU should be be 80-90% based off theirs. BL is really the only "logic" tier, which is underused Pokemon that are too good/centralising for the UU atmosphere, and Smogon are rather conservative about putting stuff in BL -- there's only five Pokemon and one of them's only there because he incites a weather effect.
I'll get arguments like "this is our tier list not smogon's RAH RAH RAH RAGE RAGE RAGE" -- smogon are a hell of a lot more reliable than us, and if we want our information as accurate as possible then it has to be based off theirs.
And why is it that I suggested a stickied topic like this about a year or more ago but it only goes into effect now? <_<
EDIT: TCoZ kinda cut me off but I don't see post notification, but what he said is more or less what I said in a nutshell.
Individuality and accuracy do not go hand in hand sometimes.
Erm, what? I never said anything about Zangoose.
I don't care what everyone else says about this. It's good for people who don't know about tiers, and we don't have to them direct off-site.
DEOXYS-S FOR OU~ EDIT:YAY ITS IN~~
EDITEDIT: Kecleon and Vileplume aren't half bad. I vote UU for both.
7 out of 10 people on YouTube use doubles. We could ask them.
This is a classic example of what I'm talking about. There's no reasoning whatsoever, and to be honest I've not seen this dude do any competitive battling at all. And how is it good for people who don't know about tiers?
My power had to be off when this topic was started...
For me, Rhypherior is not OU material and should be moved down. Sure, it may have incredible attacking stats, but it's special stats are so bad that Grass Knot or Ice Beam can OHKO him. He doesn't even have the speed to compensate for this.
Cradily isn't OU surely =S
I can't think of any damage percentages off the top of my head or whatever but it poses no massive threat to any team in OU as far as i can see. SDef boost in Sandstorm might be a tad annoying at times but it poses no threat to any team, even if it leads as all it can do when it does so is Stealth Rock which nearly everything can do these days...
Porygon2 may be good, but it isn't OU. It can't really take a physical hit.
Dragonite should stay in OU. Otherwise it would dominate the BL Tier. Basically, what Crystal said.
Damn. I meant it can't really take a Close Combat. D:
Mmmm, I think Wynaut should be UU or NU. Sure it has Shadow Tag, but that's not really good enough for Uber. It's VERY underpowered, and having 95 base HP and 48 base defenses says something about it's power as a CounterCoater. Besides, do you really want to ban something that lulzy?Yes. It's base Stats are unimportant. Not everything will OHKO it, and you have a Focus Sash. Either way, the fact remains that Shadow Tag + Encore + Mirror Coat/Counter is more than enough to make it horribly broken. it's evident you've never been up against a Wobbuffet, and just because Wynaut is less powerful doesn't mean it can't do the same job.
Yes. It's base Stats are unimportant. Not everything will OHKO it, and you have a Focus Sash. Either way, the fact remains that Shadow Tag + Encore + Mirror Coat/Counter is more than enough to make it horribly broken. it's evident you've never been up against a Wobbuffet, and just because Wynaut is less powerful doesn't mean it can't do the same job.Yes it does. Where Wobbuffet can take out 2-3 Pokemon, Wynaut can at best only take out one if even that with its 95 HP base and 48 in each defense.
But even so, Porygon2 shouldn't be an OU. The sheer amount of other things which can take it down when it can simply counter Gyarados, Heatran and Salamence is just un-canny. It may be good at annihilating said threats, which are incredibly common, but otherwise, it falls to the likes of Scizor, Heracross and others.
Yes. It's base Stats are unimportant. Not everything will OHKO it, and you have a Focus Sash. Either way, the fact remains that Shadow Tag + Encore + Mirror Coat/Counter is more than enough to make it horribly broken. it's evident you've never been up against a Wobbuffet, and just because Wynaut is less powerful doesn't mean it can't do the same job.
Rhyperior's Special Stat is beyond stupid. His speed can't even make good of Rock Polish.
But his Defence is so high, he can sponge most physical hits, even Super Effective ones, and often OHKO back.
In fact, in most cases, One-On-One, Rhyperior beats Gyarados as even with one Dragon Dance, Waterfall has a small chance of OHKOing if Rhyperior runs Adamant and 252/252 HP/Atk. After that, Stone Edge is a guaranteed OHKO, even with Intimidate.
Weavile got Low Kick in HGSS, which is just what it needed.
Since when did Outrage prevent switching?
What are Weavile's chances against Extremespeed Draggy? Focus Sash is an issue but Weavile can't check Dragonite nearly as well with ExSpeed at its disposal. You could run Ice Shard/SD but even then it's still risky...
I think P-Z should stay firmly in BL. Would any of those listed Pokemon be able to switch in safely against a Nasty Plot Tri Attack?P-Z never was in BL. According to Smogon, it's always been in OU, but I'd rather it move down to UU.
P-Z never was in BL. According to Smogon, it's always been in OU, but I'd rather it move down to UU.
also, I'm fairly certain anything that takes less than 50% from the calcs I posted can switch into a Nasty Plotted Attack of the same respect.
scizor can ALMOST counter latios if it does not have hidden power fire or a choice item as scizor can used x-scissor to hit latios on its lower, 80 base defence and do lots of damage(only if scizor has a choice item).
Rather than explain using words, I would be more than happy to arrange a battle over Shoddy OR WiFi since I have a Latios there as well, and show you WHY it is uber and why even with Life Orb, after simply 1 Calm Mind it is capable of annihilated the whole OU metagame. Scizor cannot take repeated Thunderbolts and U-Turn doesn't so enough damage.
I am curious, WHY IS LATIOS UBER!!!
without a soul dew, it is basically a latias clone.
sure it has these base stats:
HP 80
Atk 90
Def 80
SpAtk 130
SpDef 110
Speed 110
it has a total of 600, and its movepool is verry similar to latias also it has the same type and ability.
the only reasons its uber is because of the soul dew.
the difference between latias and latios is that latias has the same stats except latias has more special defence and defence.
my point is that latios should be OU
I swept 4 Pokemon in a row just by using Latios.
Thats a proof that it can't be countered(easily)right?
I agree with you.Latios should be in OU due to its somewhat similarity to Latias(assuming that I am a fan of Latios myself)
off topic: why is espeon NU, it should be UU. also why are dusknoir and ninjask OU.
Not really sure about Espeon, seeing as that 130 base special attack would probably dominate NU...as for Ninjask, it has the ability to 'stall' for at least five turns with Substitute and leftovers, allowing an assured +5 Speed boost, passed to whatever you want to speed up - that's not taking Swords Dance into account either.
it ability is not too powerful and in my opinion mew is only good at baton passing due to swords dance, rock polish, nasty plot, amnesia, calm mind, charge beam and iron defence in its verry large movepool.It can Taunt, and Baton Pass everything in the world. It has Hypnosis. This makes it the most reliable Baton Passer ever, meaning if it is on your team, enjoy your sweep.
I have to agree with Zy, I can see Raikou breaking out of UU with Aura Sphere, but not so much Weather Ball. An offensive Calm Minder would definitely give it some use in OU, especially as Latias gets moved up to Uber. Calm Mind/Thunderbolt/HP Ice/Aura Sphere @ Life Orb would be the set I'd run, with Aura Sphere having a high chance of OHKOing TTar even without a boost.
looks like salamence is uber now, the only reason its uber now is that people were complaining about its power.
who's next: dragonite? flygon?, I could just imagine that in 2 months: the only non-uber dragon would be altaria
Stop complaining about tiers, really there's nothing you can do about it.There's something they can do about it - actually have you know... a tiering system?
Strength-based tiers don't work with usage tiers.
Too bad they're completely useless. We can have Luvdisc and Spinda in OU if enough people troll.
ITT: You not reading what I say :/ Based off of stats, combos (moves/typing), etc.
Also, let's use usage tiers in a fighting game like Street Fighter IV. Ken sees the most usage online so he's the best clearly. They all use a flow-chart to play (like using the same team with the same moves, etc, aka OU), but the most usage, so it's still the best.
nullified by the introduction of another weather effect?
Water Absorb
Doryuuzu; Base 88 Speed, with the Sandstorm equivalent of Swift Swim. Base 135 Attack with Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake. Immune to Thunder Wave and Toxic. Assuming 252 Spe Jolly Doryuuzu, that's 604 Speed. 252 Atk Jolly after a Swords Dance is 738. Also carries Rapid Spin. Balloon removes its most common weakness.
Nothing walls Doryuuzu - Forretress is 2-3HKOed by Earthquake, Nattorei is 3HKOed, Desukaan is 2HKOed, even Groudon is 3HKOed. And all of these Pokemon bar Groudon and maybe WillOWisp Desukaan can't really threaten it, so it can set up more SDs on them.
Well the problem with the new sleep mechanics is sleep -> setup -> get Pokemon to switch out -> sleeper comes back, counter is reset, another kill. What happens if they're the last Pokemon? Auto-win. What happens if they decide to switch them in again later? Setup -> kill, leaving the rest of the party in shambles. Getting a setup in while they switch out the sleeping Pokemon is good enough and wasn't too bad a game breaker, but hey, having another shot to do the same thing a couple more times is terrible. But this is still just theorymon and I don't think I'll ever try this int he actual metagame considering I'm off Pokemon for whatever reason.sorry, but what's this counter thing you talk about?
The Pokemon who hit a super majority and will be gone from the metagame starting next round are: Darkrai, Deoxys-A, Deoxys-N, and Shaymin-S. Manaphy hit a simple majority and will therefore automatically be a suspect next round, where one more simple majority will seal its fate. Doryuuzu and Latios did not even hit a simple majority, and therefore need to be re-nominated next round if people still feel like they're broken.
Drizzle: 24 Bans, 17 Do Not Bans, and 9 Abstains (58.5%)
Inconsistent: 48 Bans, 2 Do Not Bans, and 0 Abstains (96%)
Shadow Tag: 17 Bans, 22 Do Not Bans, and 11 Abstains (43.6%)
Starting next suspect test, Inconsistent will be banned from standard play, Drizzle will be put on notice to be voted on again at the end of Round 2, and Shadow Tag remains free to use however people please.
Why is Mew Under-Used?Basically, just because a Pokémon is legendary, doesn't mean it's automatically Uber, just to clarify.
I know that I don't usually pay attention to this kinda thing, but it'd be interesting, since Mew is a Legendary and (probably) my 2nd favourite Kanto Legendary.
Why is Mew Under-Used?
I know that I don't usually pay attention to this kinda thing, but it'd be interesting, since Mew is a Legendary and (probably) my 2nd favourite Kanto Legendary.
They say they don't want complicated bans, although I never saw what was so complicated about it. s.s
But they didn't have to ban moves, so how is lugia with banned moves relevant to a banned ability on Blaziken?Okay let me rephrase this.
I don't mean general election voting rights xD I mean suspect nomination voting rights on Smogon... unless you actually do, then I shall shut my pie-hole (wouldn't mind knowing who you are on their forums in that case).