Misc > Debate
Abortion
Sebastian Moran:
Oh, one of those subjects.
Titling the topic this to try to avoid bias: for example "pro-life" and "anti-choice" being different words for the same side
Basically continuing this without it clogging up the RR topic.
I mean I was comparing the ridiculousness of one thing with the ridiculousness [as I see it] of Mississippi's Amendment 26, but hey, I'm in that sort of mood.
Ho hum.
Even if it's a reply for the sake of argument/hey look at these other viewpoints, I'm posting it here so that I can get hysterical in a more appropriate forum.
--- Quote from: Utack and Swampy on October 13, 2011, 19:03 ---I'm only teasing of course, but the debate between 'What constitutes a human?' in terms of abortion has been going on for a rather long time, and both sides have legitimate claims. While an unfertilized egg still needs a male set of chromosomes to begin the process of becoming a baby, The fertilized egg already possess everything it needs to begin transforming itself from a single cell into a full human child...So, do you support the woman's right to abort and 'kill' the cell as it's just beginning it's transformation into humanity, or do you support the cells right, and allow it to live and fully mature into a newborn, even though the mother doesn't want it?
Basically, I just wanted to say, that it all depends on your point of view, and which you consider more important, the woman, or the child, in terms of abortion. Your claim that you wouldn't be surprised that we'd ban a genre of music because some Americans favor protecting the unborn, still developing child over the rights of the mother to terminate her pregnancy seems a bit too...How do you say...Controversial to be compared.
--- End quote ---
I'm just saying that a fertilised egg has no mind. If it were aborted it wouldn't know. If I had been aborted I wouldn't know. If my mother had aborted me she could have gone to university and become a lawyer like she wanted to, instead of giving up her life taking care of me.
Now, I'm not saying "god, I wish she had!": I'm glad to be here, and I think that she's glad to have me here now that I am.
I'm just saying that everyone should have the choice.
Saying "no, you absolutely cannot abort that egg!" [also potentially making things like the morning-after pill illegal because they prevent a fertilised egg from implanting in the womb tissue and growing into a baby, if the anti-choice sites are to be believed]..
...saying that, if a woman chooses to have sex and for whatever reason gets pregnant, or if the sex is of dubious or no consent... if regardless of her circumstances, age, financial income, plans for life or phobias she has to go through with a pregnancy and birth, that is treating those women as nothing more than incubators, and to be honest that horrifies me.
I know that it depends on the point of view, but once you get the law to back up your beliefs, that is forcing other people to live by your own beliefs, whether or not you hold them. The law does have to draw a line, true, but it shouldn't be based more on the emotion of one side than anything else.
A woman who can't afford to have a baby, or who is terrified of pregnancy, or who is just about to go to university... if they abort, it won't effect the lives of people who are perfectly happy with their lives, and would be happy to support any accidental children.
If abortion is legal it doesn't force everyone to have an abortion, so it makes no sense to force everyone not to.
Trainer Dave:
Damn Mark, you're too easy to agree with...
Did have an interesting discussion about this the other day, the main question being "when does a foetus obtain rights of it's own?". Although that's more of a 'how late should it legally be allowed to be performed' debate.
I'd still stick with the stance that abortion is a very personal choice. Of course, abortion isn't particularly a good thing, but a woman has every right to choose whether to do so in my opinion.
Lord Raven:
yeah mark sums it up quite well
abortion is ok
Clairefable:
Abortions for some, and miniature American flags for others!
Mark pretty much summed up how I feel; I don't see myself as being pro-abortion; I am (vehemently) pro-choice. Thankfully it's something I've never had to deal with and I don't think it's a decision that anyone would ever take lightly but I am grateful that it's there should I decide that it's something that I would need in the future.
and that's all I'll say on the matter because there are few topics more likely to get me permab& than abotion
Utack and Swampy:
--- Quote from: Mr. Dalliard on October 13, 2011, 20:05 ---I'm just saying that everyone should have the choice.
--- End quote ---
The problem basically becomes, that you're making the choice to end a life, and on what authority do you have to make such a huge decision? As mentioned, the fertilized egg, while having no mind of it's own, is considered by some to be human, because if left inside the womb, it will eventually transform into a human baby. An unfertilized cell, if left in the womb, will not transform into a human baby, and therefore, isn't considered human. And since a fertilized cell is considered a human, it deserves the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, at least in the United States of America.
So, what gives the mother the right to take away another human's basic rights? Simply because she is the mother, and the organism hasn't gotten developed enough to make it's own choices? It becomes a question of 'Does the mother have the right to end a child's life, just because that child can't confirm or object?'
---
You could also pose the question 'Does the mother have the right to end a child's life, just because that child and isn't a recognizable human yet?'
Now, if you don't consider the fertilized egg a human, then there's room for debate. But then you have to ask 'When does the egg become a human?' When it looks like a human baby? When it's born?
---
So, yeah. Personally, I don't know my opinion on the subject. I want to respect the woman's rights to choice and live her own life the way she wants, but at the same time, I don't want to snuff out a new life that has just barely managed to begun. I do accept the fact that once an egg has been fertilized, it should be considered a human. As a result, Planned or not, that new organism has begun life the moment the sperm fertilizes the egg, and if born in the US, that guarantees it the right to Life. It's basically a Catch 22 of whose rights overrule the other's, the Woman or the Child? No matter what choice you make, someone is gonna lose, so you really can't win.
So, yeah! I'm just sort of playing the devil's advocate really... Although my main point in the original post was that abortion is a much more complex topic than you initially demonstrated, and I didn't feel it was a good comparison to something as silly as discriminating against a particular genre of music due to one teen's death at a rave. Didn't mean to inspire a whole topic on it, sorry ^^;
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