Topic: Bringing RMT back - Bulky Offense

[Richard and Blaziken]

So with the new, much-needed bans of Genesect and Lucarionite, I've been able to return to competitive battling without needing Heatran and Aegislash to counter them (3 months later edit: aaand they're both back!). My preferred playstyle is bulky offense, and so I've built a team around just that:


Simba (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn

Landorus-Therian is a pretty solid Pokemon. Having a Fighting resist is really nice, especially one that immediately weakens any physical attacker. Stealth Rock because Stealth Rock; EdgeQuake coverage (Edge is more important in this metagame than HP Ice, due to Talonflame), and U-Turn for momentum. Simple, effective. Also threatens both Magic Bouncers, so that's cool. The EVs were re-worked to give it the maximum amount of physical bulk possible, to take things like STAB Outrage.


Captain Punchy (Conkeldurr) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Mach Punch

Oh my God, I love this Pokemon. Don't get me wrong, it looks awful, but it's exactly what I like in a Pokemon. Awesome bulk, huge power, Conkeldurr has everything I need. Drain Punch keeps it alive while dealing out very good damage. Knock Off is what makes Conk so threatening - removing the opponent's item while simultaneously providing the coverage for Psychic types and Ghost types. Ice Punch deals very good coverage against Pokemon like Gliscor, Dragonite, and Landorus-Therian. Mach Punch is wonderful for picking off weakened Pokemon. Conk is an irreplaceable part of this team, and I wouldn't even think of replacing him.


Derpliance (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 232 HP / 56 SAtk / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Pain Split
- Will-O-Wisp

Derpliance is back by popular demand. Same as it was before, STABs give great coverage, Will-o-Wisp Burns physical attackers, and Pain Split keeps it alive. EVs outspeed max Speed base 70s, which is important to Burn Bisharp, while the rest is mostly thrown into HP to make it as bulky as possible.


Venom (Venusaur) (M) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Synthesis
- Hidden Power [Fire]

With Azumarill running around everywhere, Venusaur steps in to hard counter them. Giga Drain for STAB and healing, Synthesis keeps Venusaur alive and tanking to an obnoxious degree. Sludge Bomb is a stronger STAB, and Poison is a surprisingly good type coverage move. The amount of times Talonflame switches directly into it, only to take around 80% and also get Poisoned is hilariously frequent. Hidden Power Fire nails Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and it has been helpful a lot. Honestly, the only problems this thing faces are Heatran and Blissey, and Conkeldurr handles both of them pretty well. Speaking of Conkeldurr, opposing Conkeldurr can't do much to Venusaur in terms of damage, and Knock Off fails to do anything, so Venusaur is a great switch-in to that as well (Unless you get Frozen... which happens a lot with my luck ._.; ).


Lavasaur (Heatran) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Ancient Power

This is a bit of a hodgepodge set, but it serves the things that my team requires. Lava Plume provides STAB as well as a 30% Burn rate. Toxic hinders bulky waters such as Rotom-W. Roar provides phazing, and Ancientpower gives Heatran a means to hurt Talonflame, Charizard Y and Volcarona, as well as having a nice secondary side-effect. It's been pretty useful so far and has pretty good synergy with the rest of my team, with Landorus and Latias able to take Ground, Fighting and Water attacks aimed his way.


Sierra (Latias) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Wish
- Defog
- Protect

This is an odd choice and layout, to be sure, but what it accomplishes for my team has been generally very helpful. Draco Meteor means that Latias is not setup bait and can punch a massive hole in many opponents just before dying. Wish and Protect aids both itself and the team (Conkeldurr in particular, but it's also helpful for Heatran). Defog removes hazards, and choosing the timing of this move is important, which is something I've learned from trial and error; You don't want to remove your own SRock before its usefulness has worn out.

Honestly, there's not much to say about Latias. Tyranitar with Pursuit and SRock can be somewhat problematic, but I can bring Conk back in to threaten it out. My team misses Azumarill's physical offense, but I found myself not using him that often, and far more often than not, opposing Mega Venusaur made it useless.

Edit: In Latias's spot I've been cycling between 3 Pokemon to see which is the most useful. Here are the other two that sometimes take its spot


Demise (Aegislash) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 6 Atk / 252 SAtk
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spd
- Shadow Ball
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
- King's Shield

Aegislash has been brought in to mitigate the problems my team has had with Latios, and Psychic types in general, as well as the occasional Mega Gardevoir. Shadow Ball is an awesome nuke STAB that deals hefty damage against physical walls that commonly switch into Aegislash. Sacred Sword deals with Pokemon like Bisharp, Tyranitar, and Blissey. Shadow Sneak picks off weakened Pokemon. King's Shield keeps the bulky part of the bulky offense that my team is built around.

or


Billy (Bisharp) (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Pursuit
- Iron Head

This is a much more dedicated Latios counter, able to switch in on anything but Hidden Power Fire and put Latios in a checkmate position with the first three moves. While having 3 Dark moves seems redundant, they all serve very different and very specific functions. Sucker Punch provides it with a powerful priority STAB, punishing those that stay in and attack. Pursuit punishes things that switch, especially Specs Latios locked into Draco Meteor or Psyshock. Knock Off is the strongest STAB and punishes switching and staying in. Iron Head for a secondary STAB and coverage. Not much to say about this one, except that it's very hit-or-miss, depending on what the opponent's packing.

That's all I've got at the moment. What do you think? Suggest away! I'm open to suggestions and debates.

[Delicious_Scout]

I am not into legendaries in OU, but that's your own style. If you want an obscure answer against Psy-types, you can use a North Korea Porygon2 with Foul Play, although it is almost impossible to get. However, it might lack some coverage (no, now its coverage is normal + ghost, and they are almost utterly the same).

Yes, in my opininon, no team should lack a steel type; they have too many resistances to be ignored in a bulky-offense team. Again, Metagross is x4 resistant to Psy, eventhough you should not be that worried since there's a lack of these types in the current ladders; for example, Mega-Alakazam requires guts to use, Espeon is very frail and Metagross rarely uses Zen HeadBUTT (if I have forgotten something, let me know). As well, Xatu is too frail for a bulky-offense team, although it can be useful in Übers and OU; it is hard to use, weak to ice, electric, ghost, dark and rock. Having a modest Venusaur with its HA does not help either if you plan going first with Venusaur-Standard, since, then, your team would have 3 Pokémon with this weakness (Venusaur in a switch).

I don't think Talonflame should be banned; it may be difficult to counter, but it is quite easy to check, at least with your team. If you want to be more centralised to hard-counter it, remove Conkel and keep Simba alive, although I know you do know it already. Anyway, Conkel is very good and does not usually need more support than Hazard and momentum.

Please, remove Rotom-W. I hate it to death.

Azumarill with a Choice Band is a bit dangerous to play against, but it lacks speed and its defenses are just above average of the best. Many teams are trying to counter these two, both Rotom and Azumarill, and there's Mojambo Tangrowth, for example. It can be very annoying, and you lack an ice attack on any of these, while this type is very proficient. Tangrowth might be annoying for Conkel as well, so just watch out.

This is just a simple, careless overview, I might edit/post later my thoughts on this. My conclusion is that this team is the OU of the OU, and effective as well.

[Richard and Blaziken]

I am not into legendaries in OU, but that's your own style. If you want an obscure answer against Psy-types, you can use a North Korea Porygon2 with Foul Play, although it is almost impossible to get. However, it might lack some coverage (no, now its coverage is normal + ghost, and they are almost utterly the same).

This is for Pokemonshowdown, so getting obscure moves isn't a problem. That said, given that my specially oriented Psychic types are my problem, Foul Play won't be that useful.

Yes, in my opininon, no team should lack a steel type; they have too many resistances to be ignored in a bulky-offense team. Again, Metagross is x4 resistant to Psy, eventhough you should not be that worried since there's a lack of these types in the current ladders; for example, Mega-Alakazam requires guts to use, Espeon is very frail and Metagross rarely uses Zen HeadBUTT (if I have forgotten something, let me know). As well, Xatu is too frail for a bulky-offense team, although it can be useful in Übers and OU; it is hard to use, weak to ice, electric, ghost, dark and rock. Having a modest Venusaur with its HA does not help either if you plan going first with Venusaur-Standard, since, then, your team would have 3 Pokémon with this weakness (Venusaur in a switch).

Chlorphyll is only chosen because if Sunlight is up on the turn I Mega Evolve, I keep the Speed boost for that turn while switching to Thick Fat. Overgrow is very situationally helpful and you really don't want normal Venusaur switching into an attack that'll bring it to 33% or lower anyway. Xatu I agree with being a bit too frail, but the utility it brings is hard to overlook.

I don't think Talonflame should be banned; it may be difficult to counter, but it is quite easy to check, at least with your team. If you want to be more centralised to hard-counter it, remove Conkel and keep Simba alive, although I know you do know it already. Anyway, Conkel is very good and does not usually need more support than Hazard and momentum.

Rotom-W deals with it well enough for now, it's just a shame that you have to have a hard counter or SD Talonflame will mow through your teams.

Please, remove Rotom-W. I hate it to death.

Never! >8D

Azumarill with a Choice Band is a bit dangerous to play against, but it lacks speed and its defenses are just above average of the best. Many teams are trying to counter these two, both Rotom and Azumarill, and there's Mojambo Tangrowth, for example. It can be very annoying, and you lack an ice attack on any of these, while this type is very proficient. Tangrowth might be annoying for Conkel as well, so just watch out.

Tangrowth isn't too big a concern since it just gives Xatu time to set screens, but I will keep that in mind since it does seem like something that could theoretically pose a problem.

This is just a simple, careless overview, I might edit/post later my thoughts on this. My conclusion is that this team is the OU of the OU, and effective as well.

Thanks!

Responses in bold, and now for an update: I have reluctantly removed Xatu and began playing around with Heatran to see how it would fare. Here's what I've been using:


Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SDef
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Toxic
- Roar
- Ancient Power

This is a bit of a hodgepodge set, but it serves the things that my team requires. Lava Plume provides STAB as well as a 30% Burn rate. Toxic hinders bulky waters such as Rotom-W. Roar provides phazing, and Ancientpower gives Heatran a means to hurt Talonflame, Charizard Y and Volcarona, as well as having a nice secondary side-effect. It's been pretty useful so far and has pretty good synergy with the rest of my team.

With that added, Rotom-W has been free to switch to a spread of 232 HP / 56 Sp. Attack / 220 Speed, Modest nature, and has been performing a lot better.

[SirBlaziken]

Remove Xatu

Hm.... nothing I can see, blissey could be added, but then any Physical attack makes it eat dirt. Heatran + ground types = bad, but that seems like the better option at this point.

[Delicious_Scout]

Tangrowth. It is indeed an overlooked Pokémon. It can give it time to set up just one screen, since it always carries Knock Off. Good decision for Heatran, its awesome typing and ability should help you counter it, although it is one of the most OU Pokémon in history and thus is very exploitable and... boring. I agree with the HA Venusaur, of course. I thought you were using the X/Y game; of course Chlor is usually better to surprise. Again, Rotom is too main-water-stream, and its grass forme got a buff, although it is not as good as W. Being not very weak to Grass Knot helps too. About Foul Play: it does make it work well, since most people forget to write 0IV on attack. If you want a more reliable or popular option you can try using Bisharp, since there's a lack of fighting types roaming around and Dark got buffed. Defiant works wonders if you cannot defog/spin the web.

Thanks for reading my former review! It's clear you are good.

Remove Xatu

Hm.... nothing I can see, blissey could be added, but then any Physical attack makes it eat dirt. Heatran + ground types = bad, but that seems like the better option at this point.

Blissey... I know you don't usually like Tyranitar, but now it might be the chance to use it. Chansey is still usually better, although the nerf of Special Hits help both blobs.

And... ground? Ballons, mate! BALLONS! Also, almost all his team is laughing at that type! Look at it!

[Richard and Blaziken]

Remove Xatu

Hm.... nothing I can see, blissey could be added, but then any Physical attack makes it eat dirt. Heatran + ground types = bad, but that seems like the better option at this point.

I have 2 Ground immunities, with one resistant to Fighting and one resistant to Water. Heatran's weaknesses are pretty well covered, especially given that Gastrodon doesn't see much use in OU since Politoed's Rain got nerfed.

Forgot about Tangrowth getting Knock Off, but in that case Mega Venusaur is a great switch-in since Tangrowth can't really do much of anything to Venusaur. I may need to find room for Sludge Bomb as well, I've noticed a few instances where it may be handy to have. Probably over Earthquake, since I'm still not running into Heatran that frequently.

Edit: I've updated the original post with how my team currently looks. Made some changes to Rotom-W's EV spread, Venusaur's moveset, and removed Xatu for Heatran.

[SaRo|Rapidash]

Just a small suggestion I'd like to make: have you tried Pringles (Jellicent) > Rotom?

I know you love Rotom, but the thing is Jellicent realy puts your opponent in a tight spot whenever Heatran is out, as he is immune to 2/3 of Heatrans weaknesses, with Landorus being immune to #3. It can also burn with WoW (i assume it learns it, most ghosts do) or Scald, Making your fairly Specially Defensive team a little more secure.

Just something i thought might be worth trialng, even if you do end up preffering Rotom.

[Richard and Blaziken]

Thanks, Dick! I'll give Jellicent a shot, it seems like a good idea. It does give my team a fair bit more weaknesses overall, but none that aren't covered in some way or another, save for Ghost. I'll report back with how it performs.

[Richard and Blaziken]

*Richard used Max Revive*

I'm still using this team because I'm dedicated to perfecting bulky offense in OU. After having problems with entry hazards wearing my team down and Conkeldurr sometimes dying before his time, I was contemplating what Pokemon would be able to solve both problems. There are two solutions: Xatu, but I find it's too frail for this metagame... or...

Latias@ Leftovers
{Levitate}
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 HP / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Atk
Draco Meteor
Wish
Defog
Protect

This is an odd choice and layout, to be sure, but what it accomplishes for my team has been generally very helpful. Draco Meteor means that Latias is not setup bait and can punch a massive hole in many opponents just before dying. Wish and Protect aids both itself and the team (Conkeldurr in particular, but it's also helpful for Heatran). Defog removes hazards, and choosing the timing of this move is important, which is something I've learned from trial and error; You don't want to remove your own SRock before its usefulness has worn out.

Honestly, there's not much to say about Latias. Tyranitar with Pursuit and SRock can be somewhat problematic, but I can bring Conk back in to threaten it out. My team misses Azumarill's physical offense, but I found myself not using him that often, and far more often than not, opposing Mega Venusaur made it useless.

[SirBlaziken]

I'll consider using that Rich. You genius! I'm using conk on my showdown team right now.

[Spriter]

Mega Venu looks like it throws a curveball at your team should it use Earthquake - though I am not so sure how often they use EQ, considering it has Giga Drain / Synthesis / HP Fire / Sludge Bomb / Leech Seed to choose from first...

Though Heatran is a little iffy to take it on regardless:

4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 92-110 (25.2 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

Granted, Synthesis barely recovers off all the damage from the attack + possible burn...and it does only have 8 PP, but...that looks a little scary - and don't forget about Leech Seed. If it ran full special defensive investment, the damage is a fair bit lower.

Heatran would eventually beat it though if it had no EQ, so it looks like you can take it down anyways. Also, Mega Venusaur seems to take on opposing ones pretty nicely.

tl;dr, Be a little wary of other Mega Venu if they should carry EQ

[Richard and Blaziken]

Yeah, I've faced a few of those. Luckily they don't OHKO Heatran, so I do get one Lava Plume off. The plan from there is usually to get out and pass a Wish from Latias later and work on wearing the opposing Venusaur down, hopefully also Burning it. This is obviously not a foolproof plan, and I've been considering ways to deal with it. Psychic on Latias would be one good way to deal with it, but it doesn't really have room for it, and it means I'm helpless against Tyranitar. If you have any suggestions, I'd be more than happy to hear them!

[Richard and Blaziken]

So I've been running into some problems with Latios lately (and by now you should all know how I feel about Latios. If not, it should absolutely be banned, not a single person has given me an argument that can stand up to it not being OP for OU), and Psychic in general is pretty troublesome. After extensive thought, I've decided to test out dropping my favorite appliance buddy in favor of...

Aegislash@ Leftovers
{Stance Change}
Quiet nature (+Sp. Attack, -Speed)
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Attack / 4 Attack
Shadow Ball
Secret Sword
Shadow Sneak
King's Shield

Aegislash is built for bulky offense, and the resistances will come in very handy when facing down our floaty friend, Latios. With Latias keeping it healthy via Wish passing, Aegislash can come in over and over through the battle, launching high-powered Shadow Balls and having excellent priority in Shadow Sneak. King's Shield retains the bulky part of the bulky offense. I've chosen Sacred Sword as my secondary attack to punish things like Bisharp and Blissey.

Any thoughts or ideas? Also, in response to Spriter, I've still had no problems with EQ Mega Venusaur. Wearing Mega Venusaur down by keeping offensive pressure on it works really well, and Burning it makes EQ a non-issue. I find that most people are using defensive M-Venu still, and it's pretty hilariously awful against my team. Their Leech Seed does nothing to my own Venusaur, and smart switching to Heatran can keep the pressure up.