Topic: PKMN.net's Tier Lists

[Agatha]

Rhyperior's Special Stat is beyond stupid. His speed can't even make good of Rock Polish.
But his Defence is so high, he can sponge most physical hits, even Super Effective ones, and often OHKO back.
In fact, in most cases, One-On-One, Rhyperior beats Gyarados as even with one Dragon Dance, Waterfall has a small chance of OHKOing if Rhyperior runs Adamant and 252/252 HP/Atk. After that, Stone Edge is a guaranteed OHKO, even with Intimidate.

Adamant, 252 Attack +1 Gyarados vs 252 HP Rhyperior:
574 Atk vs 296 Def & 434 HP (80 Base Power): 504 - 594 (116.13% - 136.87%)

100 Attack +1 Gyarados (BulkyDos) vs 252 HP Rhyperior:
516 Atk vs 296 Def & 434 HP (80 Base Power): 453 - 534 (104.38% - 123.04%)


Just for the record. And yes, this does count Solid Rock.

[Webby]

Weavile should be moved down to BL/UU, in my opinion. It's no longer a viable revenge killer with Scizor and Heatran running around so freely, and taking 25% HP damage on the average switch-in is making it less appealing. It doesn't have the best moves to back up its very respectable attack stat, with none of its standard moves being over 80 base power (not including STAB). I've not seen it used at all since a few months before Platinum moves were implemented, and if its not being used in the OU tier, it shouldn't be there at all. It's OHKOd by most Pokémon that can survive its attacks, and it has a lot of threats to worry about. The amount of priority attacks in the metagame make it very unsafe for Weavile, and seeing Weavile screams to switch something in to crush it.

If I'm missing something obvious here, then let me know. I know it's a great Pursuit user, scaring off Latias and the likes, but Weavile is hardly a threat otherwise.

[Afro-Disiak]

Weavile got Low Kick in HGSS, which is just what it needed. It does much more to Scizor and Metagross on the switch in, and obviuosly still KOs TTar. Blissey takes a lot less from it than the normal Brick Break, but she doesn't exactly like taking Ice Punches either.

I say try using it youself a bit, and then judge it's effectiveness.

[Webby]

Weavile got Low Kick in HGSS, which is just what it needed.

I forgot about the HGSS upgrades, but I fail to see how Low Kick helps. Scizor switches in? Great, you just hit it for a bit of damage with Low Kick. That's not going to be a redeeming factor, because as soon as Weavile switches in, Scizor and friends forces it to switch back out again. Repeat, and it's KOing itself with possible SR damage. Weavile just has too many common threats to be a good revenge killer, and it's seeing so little use with so many priority attacks running around, especially in the prescence of Mach Punch and Bullet Punch.

[Afro-Disiak]

Well obviously just chucked on as a revenge killer, it isn't going to work on most teams. But you can support it by building a team around it, using pokemon like Magnezone/Zapdos to remove Scizor, rapid spin Tentacruel, who also helps with Heatran. Running a Swords Dance/Ice Punch/Night Slash/Low Kick set looks pretty darn deadly with those threats out of the way.

[Agatha]

Dan Dan beat me to Low Kick. Which does 108% Minimum to 0/0 Heatran (offensive), and 91-107% to 252/0 Heatran (which is a 48% chance to OHKO without rocks and 100% with).

Weavile now OHKOes (nearly all the time) one of its most popular checks, which can now only hope to revenge kill with a scarf.

248/6 Scizor on the other hand takes 46-54% damage, which is a 2HKO 60% of the time or always with Stealth rock. This forces Scizor to bullet punch or die, and bullet punch can easily be met with the likes of Magnezone who x4 resists it, and traps/KOes Scizor. Weavile still has a very fair shot against Scizor and Heatran in OU. There's also the fact that countering Weavile is hard in the sense that switching in your counter can allow Weavile to land a powerful pursuit, which in many cases, means it's job is done.

Simple fact is, ignoring Weavile's vulnerability to steel, Weavile is a dangerous weapon that many of OU's finest are extremely susceptible to. Salamence wants to sweep through your entire team with its boosted outrage? Good thing Weavile can assassinate it before it can touch you, and is forced to accept the swift OHKO as outrage prevents switching.The same goes for the lesser seen Flygon and Dragonite, who're still decent threats. Mixmence can just switch out, you say? Neutral natured Salamence takes 70-81% from Weavile's Pursuit while switching, which means with a little prediction, Salamence will be KOed by stealth rock and a well placed pursuit (66% of the time), and this is sealed with Life Orb recoil or other prior damage.

Speaking of pursuit, is Gengar giving you problems? If Gengar is not holding a choice scarf, behind a substitute, or lacks Hidden Power Fire or Focus Blast, Weavile means it more or less automatically dies. And in the case of choice scarf, this holds true if Gengar is locked into Shadow Ball, or even Thunderbolt if Weavile is in good health. Is Starmie being a pain by absorbing your status and ruining your entry hazards? Weavile outruns and delivers swift death with either dark move depending on whether Starmie switches. Alakazam, Azelf, Latias and even Cresselia are vulnerable to the same fate. Tyranitar and Scizor can pursuit as well? Well if Alakazam, Azelf, Latias or Gengar decide to pack Focus Blast, Hidden Power Fighting, Flamethrower or Hidden Power Fire, these two Pokemon are outsped and OHKOed, Weavile however outruns ALL of these Pokemon and can plant that pursuit before they can move, OHKOing a lot of them regardless of switching.

And if nearly universal protection from psychic, ghost, and dragon Pokemon wasn't enough, the list extends to the infamous Tyranitar. Even if holding a choice scarf or sporting a Dragon Dance boost, Weavile won't hesitate to outrun and one-shot Tyranitar with its choice of fighting attack. Other Pokemon that Weavile can revenge kill for you include non-focus sash Aerodactyl, Breloom, Celebi, Dusknoir, Rotom, Gliscor, Jolteon, Mamoswine, Porygon-Z, Ninjask, Smeargle, Snorlax, Togekiss and Zapdos. However most of these will need to be weakened, have movesets that aren't weak to Weavile or involve very risky prediction.

I firmly believe that Weavile has a place in OU, as properly supported, it gives Scizor a run for its money in as many huge threats it can check.

[The Wroth]

Since when did Outrage prevent switching?

What are Weavile's chances against Extremespeed Draggy? Focus Sash is an issue but Weavile can't check Dragonite nearly as well with ExSpeed at its disposal. You could run Ice Shard/SD but even then it's still risky...

[Zy]

Since when did Outrage prevent switching?

What are Weavile's chances against Extremespeed Draggy? Focus Sash is an issue but Weavile can't check Dragonite nearly as well with ExSpeed at its disposal. You could run Ice Shard/SD but even then it's still risky...

Since always.

Life Orb Rash 112 Atk Dragonite vs Adamant 4HP / 0 Def Weavile: 52.84% - 62.41%
Life Orb Weavile 252 Atk Adamant Ice Punch vs Rash Dragonite 0 HP / 0 Def: 212.35% - 251.85%

[Agatha]

If a Pokemon uses Outrage (or Thrash), they are forced to stay in and continue attacking until the two or three turn rampage is over, and confusion is induced. If this wasn't true, Outrage would certainly be a broken move.

Jolly Choice Band Weavile's Ice Shard vs 0/0 Neutral Defense nature Dragonite:
508 Atk vs 226 Def & 323 HP (40 Base Power): 388 - 460 (120.12% - 142.41%)

Unless your Dragonite is running a significant amount of defensive EVs, Weavile's OHKOing it. Weavile is far faster than Dragonite too, so only Dragonite with a speed boost of some sort will be able to hit Weavile with ExtremeSpeed before taking an Ice Shard, and Scarf, DD or Agility Dragonite will almost never run Extreme Speed unless they are absolutely terrified of Weavile and Mamoswine.

You don't need swords dance, you just need the standard choice band set to pretty much always beat Dragonite one on one. ExtremeSpeed doesn't really change anything.

[Zy]

I've been playing some HG/SS on Shoddy at school.

conclusion - extremespeed Dragonite is a massive letdown. I've been testing Choice Band variants and full physical DDance variants. the Choice Band variant has had more success but is still easily stopped and taken out. I really don't like ExtremeSpeed.

Low Kick Weavile on the other hand, is amazing. Swords Dance / Ice Shard / Low Kick / Night Slash @ Expert Belt is enough to OHKO Scizor on the switch, OHKO's Heatran and Tyranitar, 2HKO's Swampert, pretty much owns everything that stops Weavile normally. -1 Ice Shard even still OHKO's Mence with Rocks.
I can't wait until Weavile is given Technician.

[Afro-Disiak]

Try a mixed set on Dragonite, something like Rash, Draco Meteor/Fire Blast/Superpower/Extremespeed.

[skittymaster/pokemonSLR]

i hate grchomps they deserve to be uber

cuz i hate them

[Webby2]

^ Just because you dislike a Pokémon doesn't justify it being in a specific tier. I can't stand Dunsparce, but I wouldn't say it should be Uber to be kept away from me because I dislike it - I think it's positioning is fair (it's NU/UU right?).

[Laprabi]

Dunsparce is NU, Alex.

Garchomp is already Uber, and not because you hate it.

[Zy]

I think Porygon-Z should be moved down to UU or BL if that still exists.
Sure, 135 Base Special Attack seems nuts. Sure, 95 Speed is usable. Sure, it has amazing Traits that pair well with it. But I think that for Porygon-Z to be anywhere near as effective as it has potential for, you need too much setting up which is too difficult and not worth it.
Look at Alakzam - he's got a great movepool, equal Sp.Atk, even MORE speed, albeit, even more frail, but that sitll got moved down.

I can't really see Porygon-Z making much effect on UU either.