Topic: PKMN.net's Tier Lists

[Laprabi]

^Dragonite says hello. It has great Sp.Def, Inner Focus and a lot of other stuff. Blissey walls it, only ever troubled by the possibility of a Sp.Def drop from Seed Flare, and Miltank fares well against it; believe me, I had a test battle with Tim a while back, in which I used a Miltank against his Shaymin-S.

Also, Heatran and Scizor are two of OU's most used Pokemon. Scizor can also switch in on a Seed Flare, thanks to it's 4x resistance to Grass, and 2HKO with Bullet Punch. Just check the Counters section on Smogon's page of Shaymin-S. It's surprising how many non-Uber Pokes are used in Ubers, mainly Scizor, Heatran and Metagross.

[Zy]

"if shaymin does not have earth power"
uhhh, no matter what, every Skymin set will contain EP. Specs will use Seed Flare, EP, Air Slash and HP Fire.
Growth sets will drop HP Fire for Growth. EP is too much coverage, and even then, switching in on a seed flare and getting its SpD reduced, Heatran will likely be flinched to death.
Most Skymins also carry Yache Berry, meaning it can survive any Ice Shard thrown at it and then Seed Flare back.

Way too fast and powerful to be OU.

[Luna874]

looks like salamence is uber now, the only reason its uber now is that people were complaining about its power.

who's next: dragonite? flygon?, I could just imagine that in 2 months: the only non-uber dragon would be altaria

[Enigma]

looks like salamence is uber now, the only reason its uber now is that people were complaining about its power.

who's next: dragonite? flygon?, I could just imagine that in 2 months: the only non-uber dragon would be altaria

That's taking it too far. Salamence was uber because after a Dragon Dance, very few things could stop it - nothing could switch in and outspeed for an OHKO without dying to +2 Outrage twice.

Dragonite won't even be feared as much because it's simply not as fast. And Flygon for Uber? It's not got the attacking stats.

I personally don't think Salamence was that game breaking. I mean, yeah, you have to take it into consideration when making teams, but isn't this the same for Blissey? And Heatran? Even so, it will be an interesting metagame until BW come out (at which point I hope to see Garchomp and Salamence brought back into OU.)

[Afro-Disiak]

I don't want to get into another Salamence debate, but Heatran, Infernape, Blissey, Gengar all have hard counters. Cresselia is the only Salamence counter, and even then Mence can switch out to it's most common team mate Tyranitar for the Pursuit.

[Hahex and Oshawott]

quick question, what's the difference between this list and smogon's?

[Laprabi]

^Smogon's is much more up-to-date with the current metagame than our one.

[Afro-Disiak]

They actively test "suspect" pokemon and then let the community (or those who prove themselves and earn "voting rights") vote on whether they think they are Uber or not. It's by no means a perfect way of deciding whether stuff is too powerful or not, but then the arguement is that there are no other competitive battling sites that are willing to do the testing as thoroughly and non-biased as they are.

[Afro-Disiak]

Double post becdause no one ever posts here.. but Heracross is UU!

44 - Umbreon - 3.57%
45 - Smeargle - 3.47%
46 - Heracross - 3.35%
47 - Rotom-C - 2.94%
48 - Porygon-Z - 2.86%

The cutoff value is S/176.14, where S is the sum of the usage of all Pokemon. Doug's stats are reported in such a way that the sum is 600%. 600% / 176.14 = 3.4%, so Heracross is UU!

Link to stats

[Laprabi]

^As predicted, Scizor loses it's top spot to Heatran. Seriously, a quarter of all teams have a Heatran.

[Afro-Disiak]

That's because it's such a great pokemon! With tons of resists, decent bulk, great STAB and monstorous SAtk... why wouldn't it be no. 1? It's even a decent check for itself (much like Heracross )

[Sino Morior]

"They actively test "suspect" pokemon and then let the community (or those who prove themselves and earn "voting rights") vote on whether they think they are Uber or not. It's by no means a perfect way of deciding whether stuff is too powerful or not, but then the arguement is that there are no other competitive battling sites that are willing to do the testing as thoroughly and non-biased as they are"

Strength-based tiers don't work with usage tiers. Something more along the lines of fighting-game tiers, based off of stats, combos, etc would probably serve a bit more helpful. And it takes so long for something obviously broken (P-Z in UU/Hera in UU) to get fixed.



"^As predicted, Scizor loses it's top spot to Heatran. Seriously, a quarter of all teams have a Heatran."

Even if all teams were the same would OU still be fun? Oh wait, they already are...

[Afro-Disiak]

Stop complaining about tiers, really there's nothing you can do about it.

[Sino Morior]

Stop complaining about tiers, really there's nothing you can do about it.

There's something they can do about it - actually have you know... a tiering system?

[Enigma]

There is a tiering system, the metagame is not stagnant, and everything's peachy.

Strength-based tiers don't work with usage tiers.

But if something is strong, then it ultimately becomes used more...so they're kind of the same, surely? Heatran is strong, ergo it is used often. Irrespective of this weird divide (that I can't see, personally), Heatran would still be in the majority of teams. =S

Can I ask - what is the actual issue you have with the current metagame?