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Pokémon Games => Team Building => Topic started by: spyhunter7 on April 29, 2012, 03:41
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Well, I'm considering taking up competitive battling on Wi-Fi (5th gen OU), so I might as well get as much info as I can. Just wondering, does anyone have good ideas on a 5th Gen Hail team?
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Abomasnow is obvious, since keeping Hail up is necessary. Espeon or Xatu with Magic Bounce helps keep SRocks off the field, or Hitmontop could fill that role by being a decent spinner, as well as threatening Tyranitar that will inevitably ruin your Hail countless times.
Chandelure works well in Hail teams, absorbing both Fire and Fighting attacks, but only adds to the Rock weakness (something Hitmontop also helps).
The real problem is that Hail teams are simply not viable. Stealth Rock ruins them, and they have to constantly compete with Tyranitar and Politoed changing the weather.
The good news is that putting Abomasnow into an OU team is completely viable, if only for removing both Sand and Rain from play. It has to be done carefully, and Abomasnow requires so much team support in itself that it's generally not worth it, but it's an option.
Overall, you'll just end up causing yourself more headache than you need by attempting a Hail team in OU. Abomasnow can be used on normal teams with the right support, if you desperately hate weather, and have a good way of removing both TTar and Politoed on your team. The Hail will still chip 6% from your Pokemon per turn, though, negating Leftovers and actively harming everything without Magic Guard or Ice type, so it's generally a lot more of a hassle than it's worth. I run Sunny Day Prankster Sableye to remove Sand and Rain.
If you're really adamant about making a Hail team, though, I'm sure I can help.
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Nah, I was just wondering. I was thinking about a possible Kyurem set, but I figured that it wouldn't work, considering the weaknesses. Thanks for the advice, though. However, now I'm considering working on an anti-meta team...
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A hail team could be viable, provided some clever forward thinking is used.
For example:
If you lead off with Abomasnow, what's your opponent (probably) going to do?
a)send out a fire-type, or
b)send out Drought Ninetales, Drizzle Politoed, or Tyranitar.
Politoed or Tyranitar will fall to Wood Hammer, so you can catch them on the switch-in. However, your opponent may have thought about this before hand, so they will most likely bring in a fire-type. My recommendation, then, is to send out a Quagsire (I know, i know, it takes hail damage) and use Ice Beam. I know you're targeting a fire-type but like anyone will leave out a fire-type against a Quagsire. They will most likely switch out for a flying-type (to counter Earthquake) or a grass-type, both of which are destroyed by Ice Beam. At this point, you can switch out for another ice-type or Abomasnow to replenish hail in the case of Drought Ninetales or Sunny Day.
If they did send out Politoed or Tyranitar however, you MUST SWITCH ABOMASNOW BACK IN. well, so long as they didn't decide to send out a fire-type, in which case you should send in a water-ice type with {Thick Fat}.
If, at any point during the battle, they send out a steel-type, you should send out Cloyster, which has amazing Defense and in addition can proceed to destroy the steel-type with one of the many anti-Steel type attacks in its arsenal.
If a Charizard/Moltres in brought out, wipe it out with Mamoswine.
So...yeah. that's pretty much strategy for any hail team.
Hope it helps.
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A hail team could be viable, provided some clever forward thinking is used.
For example:
If you lead off with Abomasnow, what's your opponent (probably) going to do?
a)send out a fire-type, or
b)send out Drought Ninetales, Drizzle Politoed, or Tyranitar.
Politoed or Tyranitar will fall to Wood Hammer, so you can catch them on the switch-in.
Yeah, "The Weather Wars" are the main thing going on in OU at the moment - whoever keeps the weather in play is the victor. The problem is that Abomasnow is hard pushed to KO defensive variants of Tyranitar and Politoed - and on top of that, Aboma can't do anything to Ninetales.
However, your opponent may have thought about this before hand, so they will most likely bring in a fire-type. My recommendation, then, is to send out a Quagsire (I know, i know, it takes hail damage) and use Ice Beam. I know you're targeting a fire-type but like anyone will leave out a fire-type against a Quagsire.
Ninetales often runs Energy Ball. :<
They will most likely switch out for a flying-type (to counter Earthquake) or a grass-type, both of which are destroyed by Ice Beam. At this point, you can switch out for another ice-type or Abomasnow to replenish hail in the case of Drought Ninetales or Sunny Day.
If they did send out Politoed or Tyranitar however, you MUST SWITCH ABOMASNOW BACK IN. well, so long as they didn't decide to send out a fire-type, in which case you should send in a water-ice type with {Thick Fat}.
If, at any point during the battle, they send out a steel-type, you should send out Cloyster, which has amazing Defense and in addition can proceed to destroy the steel-type with one of the many anti-Steel type attacks in its arsenal.
If a Charizard/Moltres in brought out, wipe it out with Mamoswine.
So...yeah. that's pretty much strategy for any hail team.
Hope it helps.
The problem is that the opponent is equally as good at prediction; Ninetales won't always default to a fire type attack against Abomasnow, as a competent player would switch it out.
I'm not so sure about Cloyster being ~The Answer~ to every steel type Pokemon, but Magnezone is a very good candidate on Hail teams. The most defensive Pokemon that will resist Blizzard are Steel and Water type Pokemon - Magnezone can handle both of those with Magnet Pull + Hidden Power Fire, and Thunderbolt for the water types.
That said, you would definitely need a Pokemon to absorb some Fire type attacks if your main attacking core is a 100% STAB Blizzarder + Magnezone. Heatran's always a good bet. <3
Just some thoughts~
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Whoops... :-/
Okay that advice was probably not the best, but I think I can fix it.
If you lead with Abomasnow, switch out immediately, maybe for Tentacruel (due to its Special Defense) or possibly Ludicolo. Neither is weak to Energy Ball, and both can learn ice moves and handle Politoed (especially Ludicolo) and Tyranitar and definitely Ninetales.
Actually, Cloyster has super high defense and can handle every steel-type with the possible exception of Thunderbolt Registeel and the definite exception of Magnezone (which it probably can't OHKO with HP Ground).
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Actually, Cloyster has super high defense and can handle every steel-type with the possible exception of Thunderbolt Registeel and the definite exception of Magnezone (which it probably can't OHKO with HP Ground).
Heatran? It can OHKO Cloyster after SR damage with Lava Plume.
Defensive Jirachi?
Ferrothorn?
Cloyster is mainly countered by bulky Waters and Steels.
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To OHKOMaster: Don't you think Ludicolo is more for Rain? (Abilities: Swift Swim (increases Speed in rain), Rain Dish (free Leftovers in rain))
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Yeah, you're right, but it isn't weak to energy ball and can beat up Ninetales, Politoed, and Tyranitar.
Of course, Tentacruel is the infinitely better option.
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Yeah, until poor Tentacruel gets SolarBeamed by a Sun team...
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Yeah, until poor Tentacruel gets SolarBeamed by a Sun team...
He's neutral to that, can't he take a hit?
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I'm surprised no-one has brought up Kyurem.
It has the most powerful Blizzard in the game, and it can run a Choice Scarf to clean up late game with Dragon Pulse/Blizzard. It should run Scarf with Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse/Blizzard/Focus Blast.
And there is a team i've seen and tested that has really powerful things behind it. If you run Magnezone and Abomasnow and Kyurem, the team i'm on about runs two more dragons on the team, which soften the opponents team early on. Dragonite and Haxorus with Choice Band did this on the team, Magnezone cleared out the steel types whilst Forretress provided hazards so that in the end, Kyurem swept with Blizzard.
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^Joint highest. Don't forget about Glaceon. :p
Glaceon sucks though, so use Kyurem if you want a powerful blizzard abuser.
My favourite Kyurem set is a mixed one with life orb. Everyone expects choice so you can easily rip holes through weakened teams with Draco Meteor and Outrage.
The problem with Kyurem, and the majority of ice types (including Abomasnow) who benefit from hail, die way too easily. Abomasnow and Kyurem have weakness to stealth rock and the ever-present spikes and toxic spikes. Not to mention Close Combat, Mach punch, Drain Punch, Stone edge, Rock slide and the list goes on. So without a lot of support hail teams are unfortunately inferior to other weather types, especially sand and rain. That being said, it's fun to experiment with different weathers and I found it fun to use a hail team.
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It is also an easier thing to do if you have Abomasnow just to disrupt the foe's weather. Don't bring it out until Tyranitar/Politoed dies though, if you use it that way.
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^That's a lot easier said than done.
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I'm thinking about Alakazam right now. Magic Guard is great to dismiss the Hail damage, and is good with Focus Blast. Just add a Life Orb or even Expert Belt if you want, and you can punch a good hole into Tyranitar. Then again, you might have to instead use a Focus Sash, now that I consider Alakazam's fragility...
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I'm thinking about Alakazam right now. Magic Guard is great to dismiss the Hail damage, and is good with Focus Blast. Just add a Life Orb or even Expert Belt if you want, and you can punch a good hole into Tyranitar. Then again, you might have to instead use a Focus Sash, now that I consider Alakazam's fragility...
Just as a heads up, Magic Guard negates the recoil damage from Life Orb, so your choice of item with Alakazam should always be either Focus Sash or Life Orb, depending on what you want to do. If you do want to use Alakazam in the aim of stopping Tyranitar, as crazy as it sounds, you'll have to go for a Focus Sash knowing you cannot be OHKO'd in the event that it's a Scarf'd tar.
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Alakazam also has great use in killing fast and boosted sweepers too, and with Psych Up and Focus Sash, it can steal +2 Virizion's CM boosts and sweep.
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^That's a lot easier said than done.
This. With Team Preview, the opponent will know that you have an Abomasnow. They will also know to keep Tyranitar/Politoed/Ninetales alive for as long as possible. They only need to be in for one turn, and can be used as a lead. By the way, the way weather works for leads means that the slower lead's weather stays.
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Lead with a abomasnow with
wood hammer/giga drain/blizzard/avalanch
frosslass with snow cloak
Blizzard/darkpulse/shadow ball/any move
hitmontop
Rapid spin/close combat/high jump kick/stealth rocks
Pignite
Roar/flame charge/heat crash/brickbreak
Tangrowth
/power whip/gigadrain/sleeppowder/sludgebomb
Gyarados
thunderbolt/waterfall/dragonrage/anymove
hope this helped :wub:
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^Dark Pulse is redundant on Frosslass, as it lacks STAB and has the same coverage as Shadow Ball. Frosslass is mostly used as a Spiker with Spikes, Ice Beam/Blizzard, Taunt, Destiny Bond
Hitmontop can't even learn Stealth Rock, and Close Combat is much preferred over Hi Jump Kick. Foresight can be used to ensure the Rapid Spin.
Roar is pointless on Emboar, Wild Charge provides better coverage. Flare Blitz, Wild Charge, Superpower, Head Smash
Leech Seed > Giga Drain, Hidden Power Ice > Sludge Bomb
Gyarados should never be using special attacks. Dragon Dance, Waterfall, Earthquake, Bounce/Ice Fang is somewhat effective, though using Gyarados in OU is a bad idea, in my opinion.
That being said, I don't think the above is a good example of a hail team at all. I'd go with something like Abomasnow, Heatran, Tentacruel, Gliscor, Kyurem-B and Terrakion, or something close to that.
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No it was against my cousin whos 22 and knows about ev' and iv's so hah
:tongue2:
Likely you were fighting against somebody that doesn't know what EVs or IVs are, then, because the average person would have smashed your team to bits. Richard&Blaziken is one of the best team builders on the website and I'd take his advice. It's very helpful.
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No it was against my cousin whos 22 and knows about ev' and iv's so hah
:tongue2:
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Since mods are nowhere to be found, I'll explain why what you've suggested is incredibly stupid. Don't fault me if you get lost along the way, I'll hold your hand through it as much as possible.
The Abomasnow set is a joke. You're setting yourself up to be forced out by Heatran constantly, which can either launch a Fire attack at you or setup Stealth Rock as you switch, which by the way, hits most of your team Super Effectively or neutrally, with only Hitmontop resisting it, and Hitmontop does not want to switch directly into Heatran, since Fire Blast will take rather large chunks out of it, while Lava Plume has a 30% chance of completely crippling Hitmontop with a Burn.
Speaking of which, let's talk about that. Nothing on your team can switch into Heatran with Lava Plume and Earth Power, two common attacks on Heatran. Everything except Emboar is hit Super Effectively by Lava Plume, or risks being Burnt by it, which would effectively shut it down.
Back to the Pokemon you've recommended. Frosslass using Dark Pulse is idiotic. Tell me what Dark Pulse is hitting harder than either Shadow Ball or Blizzard/Ice Beam. Answer? Nothing. Literally nothing at all. "Any move" isn't a suggestion and doesn't help a single bit.
Hitmontop, as you've recommended it, is completely walled by not only Ghosts, but by Poison types, most dangerously Tentacruel, who can setup a Substitute and Scald until it burns you, then proceed to spam Toxic Spikes, forcing you to keep spinning until the Burn and Hail damage kills you. And you've recommended Stealth Rock, a move that Hitmontop can't even learn. Good spinner choice. Also shares a Flying weakness with Abomasnow and Pignite. Ah, let's speak about that shall we?
Pignite. You're recommending a Pokemon that isn't fully evolved, is slow as hell, and has no power. And you've slapped Roar on it because... well, there is no reason to put Roar on an offensive Pokemon that can't take hits, good job. Even if this was meant to be Emboar, the moveset is pathetically laughable. Flare Blitz, Superpower, Wild Charge, Earthquake/Head Smash@ Choice Band is the best Emboar has going for it, and it's outclassed many times over by better Pokemon that aren't absurdly slow.
Good job making a Tangrowth that is completely walled by Ferrothorn, one of the most common Pokemon in competitive battling. Hidden Power Fire or Ice is necessary on Tangrowth in OU.
Gyarados using Thunderbolt is hilarious to me. A Pokemon that should always be using physical attacks that is already walled by Ferrothorn and Rotom-W, and you're making it run a weak Thunderbolt off of his laughable base 60 Sp. Attack. Know what other Pokemon has base 60 Sp Attack? Spinda. If you want to use moves with the power of a Spinda, hey, go for it, have fun losing. The moveset I've provided allows Gyarados to setup and actually do some damage, but Gyarados has no place in Hail. It doesn't benefit it at all, and the hail is actually detrimental to Gyarados' already short lifespan. Gyarados really only has a place in rain teams where his boosted Waterfalls can do some damage, not where his health is constantly being chipped as it attempts to sweep. Also, great suggestion for the last move, any move is very helpful for people needing advice. I usually run Sacred Fire on my Gyarados, since it can learn any move.
Now I was respectful to you in my first post, quietly trying to guide the OP to a better team than the ridiculous one you've suggested. I've been into competitive battling for about 10 years now and have done more competitive battles with actual competitive battlers than you've likely done actual battles with anyone, ever. I've written entire guides on how to battle competitively, so if there's a reason that people listen to my advice, it's because it's backed by wisdom, experience and an unhealthy lifelong dedication to the competitive aspect of Pokemon. Beating your obviously unskilled friend means nothing at all.
Finally (and I'm just noticing this now), the OP needed help with this team a whole year ago. So on top of all your terrible advice, your post as a necropost that was completely unnecessary.
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I thought being late to the party was fashionable..?
Lets calm this topic down now. I've removed the post in question, along with any references to it, and I'll be getting in touch with said member to remind them of the rules on this website. For the rest of you, keep it civil yo.
Rob