Topic: PKMN.net's Tier Lists

[Lord Raven]

Shadow Tag in general is more or less banned, originally because of that one glitch but now because Shadow Tag is the reason why Wobbuffet is banned to begin with.  Shadow Tag as an ability is banned I'd think (everyone who uses it makes heavy use of it), but Speed Boost as an ability is not.

There's no double standard with enforcing a ban on an entire ability/move, but on a specific move on a specific Pokemon is where the double standard applies.

But they didn't have to ban moves, so how is lugia with banned moves relevant to a banned ability on Blaziken?

Okay let me rephrase this.

You're not allowed to use two abilities in tandem, correct?  Drizzle and Swift Swim are the two abilities in question that I am thinking of.  That is easily enforceable, there's no double standard because it's an ability (combination) ban.

My Lugia example was extremely hypothetical.  You cannot ban a specific moveset of a Pokemon because that's apart of the Pokemon.  It allows us to open up a double standard that complicates tiers, such as "we can easily place x Pokemon in a lower tier if we ban a certain moveset."  So, let's take a Gen IV Scizor for example; Swords Dance/Quick Attack/Bug Bite/Bullet Punch or w/e (i haven't played competitive in a while, bear with me).

You could ban that set and Scizor would easily go to a lower tier...  same concept as banning one specific set on one specific Pokemon.  In this case, it's one specific ability on one specific Pokemon; it's far too specific and is probably not easy to enforce especially because one of Blaziken's innate abilities is now Speed Boost.  With Shadow Tag, yes it's an innate ability of three Pokemon, but those three are SO dangerous and overpowering with it that the ability itself is restricted to Ubers, which wasn't the case for Speed Boost.  Competitive politics are extremely complicated but it makes sense if you read into it.

But Shadow Tag isn't even banned anyway so who cares

[Afro-Disiak]

Shadow Tag Chandelure hasn't been released yet. When it is, Chandelure will most likely banned outright like Blaziken. You can call it unfair or whatever you want, but no one will listen to you. If you want to get heard, get voting rights and have your say that way, it's all you can do.

@the Lugia/Blaziken thing, it's sort of like saying "hey this mon isn't as powerful if you nerf it's level/moves/ability... what else could be "not broken" with these nerfs?" ie the SLIPPERY SLOPE arguement. Blaziken is broken with Speed Boost, so let's just ban th--oh wait bye bye Ninjask, hmm so we ban Blaziken + Speed Boost and allow Blaziken... ok so then someone says "yeah but Mewtwo at lvl 80 would be alright for standard play" and then you get a clusterficskfhsafklh of rules and complications for all the ubers to make them playable.. when it would just be easier to ban them and have the Ubers tier!

[Legacy]

I do have voting rights -__- lol

But I understand your point now. It's not quite as simple as it sounds to ban an ability onone pokemon.

[Afro-Disiak]

I don't mean general election voting rights xD I mean suspect nomination voting rights on Smogon... unless you actually do, then I shall shut my pie-hole (wouldn't mind knowing who you are on their forums in that case).

[Legacy]

I don't mean general election voting rights xD I mean suspect nomination voting rights on Smogon... unless you actually do, then I shall shut my pie-hole (wouldn't mind knowing who you are on their forums in that case).

Nah I was just being a nuisance. I wish I had voting rights as well...that would be great XD I was going to join their forums a while back. Changed my mind.

Anywho, back on topic, are we going to have our own tierlist or not? It seems like there is somewhat of a debate about it.

[Liam]

I doubt that it would be worth our while to make our own tier lists. For one, we don't really have enough competitive battlers on the site to get conclusive usage statistics that would probably leave us with 20 Pokémon with various percentages and the rest unused. If we were to put our own tier lists into place how would we operate them? Considering a lot of the competitive battlers only/mostly use Pokémon Online we can hardly gain our own data if we stick ourselves on different servers. It's easier just to follow Smogon's tiers if you ask me.

[Zy]

we killed excadrill and thundurus.

have a nice day

[Specstile]

good, thundurus was annoying as hell