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Misc => Random Randomness => Topic started by: NTN on July 30, 2013, 23:02
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Random Randomness or Debate? I'm not quite sure, but I have a feeling this belongs here.
I do believe in ghosts. I believe everyone has a certain energy inside him or her, and once he or she dies, that energy has to go somewhere. If there is a strong passion or feeling (revenge, anger, etc.) before one's death, this is where the ghost of that person comes from. They exist around a certain place, of origin, meaning, and unsolved matters. Ghosts are very real to me.
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I really wish I did, but I can't. I can see no logical reason why they would exist; what benefit would it have to the universe? Also, we'd have the small problem of the energy; no energy is lost from the body at death, but some is created in a ghost? Breaking fundamental physics there...
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It sounds like you're responding. I would describe it as a special energy that does not depend on physical things and isn't something we can control or detect.
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I love the idea of the supernatural, if people can believe that God exists then why wouldn't ghosts? I don't know, sometimes you can just find places which don't seem... still, its intriguing. :)
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This is the problem. Energy is everything. Conservation of energy = conservation of everything. Even matter is incarnate energy.
As I say, I'd love to believe in ghosts, but I can't see any rational explanation to their existence.
And don't get me started on god... That's the most ridiculous story ever (in my opinion, of course)
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I'm really not sure. I have heard a lot of ghost stories from people I trust, but then I have yet to experience a supernatural incident myself. So I'm not discounting the possibility.
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Personally I believe in no such thing. I see it as a camp fire scary story thing.
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And don't get me started on god... That's the most ridiculous story ever (in my opinion, of course)
The thing about God is that so many people believe in him... I don't think its real, I think Christians are actually just people who have been scared into believing it.
There is not rational explanation for a lot of things...
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God may exist, so like Chloe said, why not ghosts and spirits. Yes, I believe.
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I consider them in the same way as God/deities/higher powers - there's not enough evidence to prove or disprove their existence, so I'm agonistic about it.
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(On God, again - I go to church and I would believe in God but I just don't think church is my style... it's a bit to personal for a public place for me, I usually just sit with my Dad and play Pokemon.)
I went on a ghost walk at Bolsover Castle once (near Chesterfield) there's just this feeling that you get when you're about somewhere that is said to have ghosts that feels different idk.
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Ehhh the idea of dead people coming back to haunt you/me/us for no reason? I personally think no, I don't believe that.
But I have witnessed a few things which can't be explained and most people would consider to be 'ghostly' or paranormal, I've also heard it second hand from people who would not bother making this sort of thing up and I'm sure many people here have. I do think something is happening and people are seeing SOMETHING. I don't believe it's all smudges on the camera lens/you're insane/it was a draft/etc.
My complete pseudoscience theory is that electromagnetic waves are causing this, I think places that are 'haunted' may collect energy in ways that manifest themselves caused by electromagnetic waves and the earths polarity. For example, if you walk into a room where something terrible has happened without knowing it, you can often 'feel' it. Or you can feel tension in a room if you walk in on an argument unknowingly.
Obviously there's no science to back this up and it's not even scientifically coherent, but I would bet a reasonable amount of cash that in the far future we stumble across something to do with electromagnetic fields and find that it can trigger 'paranormal' events. I definitely think this might be the case for things like 'poltergeist' activity. I noticed something really strange about Poltergeist videos that I don't think anyone has picked up on before that relates to this.
In any case, I am 95% sure that in the possibly far future we will discover SOMETHING that will go a long way into explaining a large portion of paranormal activity however mundane/bizarre it is. It's not case closed yet IMO
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personally... no.
on the whole science side of things, energy doesnt have memories or a lasting shape or anything like that.
energy goes where its most favourable for it to be.
i dont see anything energetically favourable to retaining the shape of a human... or indeed any other animal.
there should be ghosts for all sorts of things, sheep and cats and dinosaurs and fish and flies and bees... kind of crowded.
and then there's the vague argument to what a ~soul~ is and why only humans have them for some reason, which has no reasoning behind it other than wanting to be special.
but people used to not know what volcanoes were, or lightning, and they were treated as something supernatural until they did.
then it just became facts and science.
if theres ever found to be scientific evidence for ghosts or the soul, then sure, ill believe in it given an explanation for how they work and why.
as of now though... nah.
good for stories though, but i personally prefer zombies.
and theyre good for crack scientific theories to do with quantum physics and the like, i dont see them as anything more solid than a thought experiment though.
edit: turner kind of beat me to the sCIENCE garbling bit oh well its staying.
The thing about God is that so many people believe in him... I don't think its real, I think Christians are actually just people who have been scared into believing it.
aside from the fact that christianity is only one of many religion which believes in a form of God (or gods)... thats p insulting to people who do believe in a higher power.
some people believe in God because its comforting, or gives them a feeling that theres more to life than being a blip in history.
its a very understandable belief to have, which is why there are so many religions with different origins starting up... some people are more or less forced into a religion, or force others into it, but im not convinced that that would even be the majority of religious people.
if it gives people hope and comfort and satisfaction, then its kind of dickish to take that away from them.
which is why i hold aggressive atheists in the same contempt as i hold aggressive religious people.
(lmao im aware that my signature doesnt help that last sentence to look convincing but its true).
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I never said that this was true, but it is my opinion that some people might be scared that if they do not believe in a higher power and there is one, that they would then damn them. Which they wouldn't because they're supposed to be kind, so I don't see why they would damn anyone!
- I'm not an aggressive atheist, I'm willing to be religious but I'd want proof of higher powers first...
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the people who believe in ghosts... what about things like ouija boards and psychics and the whole series of ghost-hunting television shows or whatever?
does that come with the territory or is it too silly?
I never said that this was true, but it is my opinion that some people might be scared that if they do not believe in a higher power and there is one, that they would then damn them. Which they wouldn't because they're supposed to be kind, so I don't see why they would damn anyone!
sounds a bit like pascals wager: the idea that you may as well believe in God, because if you dont and there is one then youre damned... but if you do and there isnt one then it doesnt make any difference.
but yeah believe in what feels right to you, rather than trying to reason with it, thats what id say. if the idea just doesnt sit right because of no proof, then you dont have to feel guilty for not believing. if you like the idea, then you shouldnt feel guilty for believing in something unproven... the whole point of God is, i think, that its a ~higher existence~ thing.
same for coincidence or superstition or luck, people believe in those but theres no real basis for it.
not that you need my permission to believe stuff or anything haha.
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This is the problem. Energy is everything. Conservation of energy = conservation of everything. Even matter is incarnate energy.
Energy is a mathematical construct used to solve physics problems, so we can state "energy = conserved." And we invent new rules that are somehow consistent with our already established laws in case there's some inconsistency.
I don't think I can explain to you what Electromagnetic energy is without using a whole ton of math. You know why? Because that's effectively what it is, and it just so happens that certain things can be easily justified and somehow visualized (like kinetic energy etc) when in reality, there's no inherent mystical attribute known as energy. It's just a mathematical construct that's conserved, much like momentum and all of that.
Anyway, I believe in ghosts until they're unmasked
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It's a nice thought isn't it, that each and every one of us (somehow isolated to humans) have a soul and that once the body passes the soul preserves and lives on, but that sometimes those souls are not at rest and so remain here to find that peace explaining why we so often see deceased relatives as opposed to complete strangers.
My belief is that based entirely on available scientific evidence which'd suggest that the vast, vast majority of 'visitings' that people have - you know, the classic late at night or early in the morning visitation where their relative is at the foot of their bed or at their bedroom door - is due to their rapid awakening whilst still in the REM stage of sleep, thus confusing and tricking the mind into something that may not be true. You snap out of those dreams so quickly it's disorientating. Sleep paralysis, which was never well documented until recently, has probably also contributed to a conception of ghosts.
I think it's far more to do with human psychology and how our brains work, we're still to fully understand how our brains and our minds work, than an external being such as a soul. The mind can and does play tricks on you, I think there's more in that than a 'ghostly' vision.
That being said, that's probably due to any experiences I've had with 'ghosts' have been fitting to the above, although it did shake me up at the time. Two friends of mine who'd have no reason to make things up both have a very opposite view due to their own experiences. One of them grew up in a house that had had a domestic violence history prior to his family moving in and he used to apparently witness some of his shelves being 'cleared' in a sweeping matter. Apparently the house gave off an aura which frightened his girlfriend off visiting full stop. The other used to see a ghost of a man in his bedroom which, again apparently, was the father of the family who used to live there but had died in a car accident, presumably visiting his family home to see his family again. He only made the connection when he was talking to his neighbours who'd been there before showed him a picture and he discovered it was the 'same' person.
But I don't know.. the first one can be explained through dodgy shelves, but the second one is more puzzling. Even the aura aspect can be explained through preconceptions; if you know something has happened there, you tend to feel more on edge. Maybe it's just me, I've visited supposed haunted grounds and places where abuse occurred and never felt anything, yet others have..
Even on camera, 'ghost' footage never seems to convince me other than that it's a series of coincidences that portrayed together gives the impression of such. People'll take what they want from such videos, stories etc..
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I definitely believe in some level of ghosts, or 'the supernatural'. I've experienced too much within that realm to think of it as something that flat-up doesn't exist. I mean... Even if not in spirits wandering the world after death, maybe more beings that exist on a separate plane to us, and some level of ability within people to affect things on that plane. Does it make sense? I'm not really sure, but I dunno... I do think there's a perfectly rational sciencey explanation for it, but I think that sciencey explanation includes the existence of the supernatural as we know it, if that makes sense.
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I sort of do. Those programmes like most haunted are crap.
*creak* "oh there's a dead man named nick coming through he died in a fire"
I do beleive in life after death and white feathers being a sign. Eh
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Nope, I believe when you die that's it, and I like it that way because seriously living forever in any form would be such a drag.
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yeah.
my old room was all kinds of haunted lmao. id be asleep and id feel someone smack/stroke my arm or shoulder and id feel someone kick the back of my computer chair sometimes and sit down on my bed when i was trying to sleep
i asked the landlord and he said he felt it too last time he was in there (like 4 years ago) and apparently got a lot of complaints about it from people whod lived there previously
my gran also died in my old old house. like before the paramedics could get there and stuff, and she spent her last months in my old room in that house
sometimes when i was going to the bathroom at night id see her standing in the doorway to the room or hear her shuffling around from bathroom to room
im pretty sure she sat on my bed one night a few days before moving out of that house
its probably just my imagination lol but its pretty cool to think that theyre just hangin out
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I consider them in the same way as God/deities/higher powers - there's not enough evidence to prove or disprove their existence, so I'm agonistic about it.
basically this
if ghosts exist then hahahah im gonna haunt all you losers forever esp. those of you who dont believe in ghosts, if not and death is the amighty end then well i welcome becoming a skeleton
either way im gonna rise from the dead 666 years after my death and take over the world
additionally, derek acorah is terrible and i wish i could get money for pretending to be posessed
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according to my mother, our house is haunted........ by a cat.
yeah.
she and somebody else have apparently seen it jumping across the hallway and vanishing into where there's a wall... the place is built on the site of a farm so... wooooooooo.
cat ghosts. idk.
she likes psychics as well, she's been to a few of those. not sure that she believes in them though, but she finds them fun so that's what counts i guess.
additionally, derek acorah is terrible and i wish i could get money for pretending to be posessed
that reminds me, we need to watch derren brown's "messiah" sometime, he does stuff like pretending to contact the dead and mind reading, posing as somebody trying to get accepted into the community to see if it can all be explained by trickery.
(also dont u dare haunt me or i will haunt your ghost right back)
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I remember watching Derek Acorah on tv and he pretended he was being strangled by a ghost or something like that. It was hilarious, like, that's his life. Being strangled by ghosts and talking to himself in the dark. That's brilliant, and he's probably got a nice house.
I don't believe in ghosts, but I like them in terms of stories and stuff. Good fun.
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if ghosts exist then hahahah im gonna haunt all you losers forever esp. those of you who dont believe in ghosts, if not and death is the amighty end then well i welcome becoming a skeleton
If you're going to haunt me then I'll need a sign to know you're the real deal. An alcoholic sign...
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This debate is easily solved! Ask a dying person to rewind Big Ben an hour if they become a ghost! ;D
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That would make Daylight Savings Time very interesting indeed...
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Yes, yes it would.
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ngl though i hate on derek acorah (esp after my mother and sister decided watching every Most Haunted that was on ever was something that needed to be done) but i think ghosts are neato so i tend not to be That Person if i can help it
i'll probably Get Haunted one day so eh i'll figure out how to make ghost drinks and we can party instead i'll put on "bela lugosi's dead" and we'll all goth dance
also someone from my hometown wrote a book about ghosts on the iow and their name is gay baldwin isn't that a gr8 name
(also dont u dare haunt me or i will haunt your ghost right back)
that sounds like a challenge, challenge accepted
ive got 13 years experience being a terrible goth so i hope you know what you got yourself into here
you're on
If you're going to haunt me then I'll need a sign to know you're the real deal. An alcoholic sign...
what is an expensive & delicious liquor you like i will posess it and bring it to your house
regularly
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If you're going to haunt me then I'll need a sign to know you're the real deal. An alcoholic sign...
what is an expensive & delicious liquor you like i will posess it and bring it to your house
should i make a joke about spirits here or would that be too obvious?
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should i make a joke about spirits here or would that be too obvious?
Yes. Make the joke. We will all groan, but someone needs to make the joke ;D
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nah its ok, the joke was me alluding to the joke instead of actually coming up with anything substantial.
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what is an expensive & delicious liquor you like i will posess it and bring it to your house
regularly
For our resident aged Scotswoman? Come on, that HAS to be a good old Scotch Whisky!
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Supernatural stuff isn't something I take to very much. I mean when you think of ghosts, you end up thinking of demons then it goes to a heaven and hell sort of thing and then all of a sudden...yeah. I think that if god isn't proven to exist, then ghosts aren't proven. For me, ghosts are related to the whole religion thing in one way at least. Which is pretty much based on faith, not solid proof. Maybe a God does exist, which would possibly mean ghosts do. But maybe God has different teachings and such to some of the rubbish in the bible. But when we have all this science floating around us, it's pretty much established that stuff like ghostly experiences could be mere coincidence. For example, people who have suffered from sleep paralysis always state that they've seen ghosts floating around the room (or even demons and the devil himself). That's stuff to do with being half-awake half-asleep and REM and all that jazz mostly. There are unexplained phenomenon, but then there are possibly billions of things we haven't seen yet (e.g. the whole of the universe and all of the planet arrangements, life in other parts of the universe, countless bits of unknown science, the other side of black holes which is pretty much impossible to do...you name it.)
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Supernatural stuff isn't something I take to very much. I mean when you think of ghosts, you end up thinking of demons then it goes to a heaven and hell sort of thing and then all of a sudden...yeah. I think that if god isn't proven to exist, then ghosts aren't proven. For me, ghosts are related to the whole religion thing in one way at least. Which is pretty much based on faith, not solid proof. Maybe a God does exist, which would possibly mean ghosts do. But maybe God has different teachings and such to some of the rubbish in the bible. But when we have all this science floating around us, it's pretty much established that stuff like ghostly experiences could be mere coincidence. For example, people who have suffered from sleep paralysis always state that they've seen ghosts floating around the room (or even demons and the devil himself). That's stuff to do with being half-awake half-asleep and REM and all that jazz mostly. There are unexplained phenomenon, but then there are possibly billions of things we haven't seen yet (e.g. the whole of the universe and all of the planet arrangements, life in other parts of the universe, countless bits of unknown science, the other side of black holes which is pretty much impossible to do...you name it.)
I think honestly poltergeists are when you throw a spanner in the works of the REM theory. I've seen stuff literally shoot off a completely level table for no reason, no wind, no pranks, nothing like that. It is the weirdest most bizarre thing (and pretty creepy too) I've seen. At a friend's grandmother's house I also saw the tail-end of a book fly off a bookshelf in a low ark and land on the floor (meaning, I didn't see it air off the shelf, but I saw it in the air and land on the floor. Apparently that was surprising but not uncommon at their house. If I logically put my mind to it, my theory isn't ghostly or scary at all, but at the time it's still pretty freaky when it actually happens.
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To who doesn't believe in ghosts: How does logic explain Haunter?
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He/she is a pokemon, that's different.
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To who doesn't believe in ghosts: How does logic explain Haunter?
Haunter is a ball of gas, pretty much.
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Or, following that idea, if Ice Creams can't make blizzards, how does logic explain vanniluxe?
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Yeah! If they can't how do those pokemon do it?
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Because Pokémon are fictional and only exist in fictional worlds where nothing has to make sense.
The basic assumption about ghosts is that they exist in our world so any explanation about what they are and what they can do must adhere to the rules and laws of our world.
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assumption
This sums up ghosts. An assumption. Someone thought it made sense, and will have claimed to have seen them, and I believe all other sitings have been a sort of placebo effect, in which ghosts have been treat as a scapegoat to solve an enigma.
I have the same view on God, Witchcraft, satanism and the like.