Here, you can discuss your predictions for the metagame, pokemon, moves strategies, etc.
I'll start.
Boomburst, 140 base power and 100 accuracy. Even if learned by only 2 pokemon and it being a normal type move, it seems a bit overpowered for me. If it gets nerfed, I called it.
Flying Press, Fighting and Flying type move, interesting to say the least. I have no idea what to make of it.
fairy types could be really annoying with only 2 weaknesses, and there arent many good poison types in the metagame (i dont think, at least :P ), and no STAB moves that are good at all. venoshock is the highest base power i can think of off the top of my head and its only 65 or 70...
Well there's 80 (sludge bomb) and 120 (gunk shot, belch). There are a select few good poison types, gengar, venasaur, tentacruel.
Fairies were meant to balance the game, they're just giving me a headache.
^gunk shot and belch???
THESE ARE ACTUALLY REAL??
*dies*
*is reincarnated as a tree and dies again*
Boomburst is a Normal type move, I don't actually see it getting any use from Noivern or Smeargle, as both of them have better things to do in singles. Mawile is the answer to Fairys and Dragons, so use that.
I don't want to make predictions just yet, because there is entirely too much to contemplate this time around. I can say, though, that I think (Mega?) Gengar will end up banned, and Blaziken will be banned entirely, since it can Baton Pass with Speed Boost even without going Mega.
Mega Aggron will probably replace skarmory to an extent, as he has 80/230/80 defenses. Might go well with that new item that multiplies special defense by 1.5, but disallows status moves? He could then use his 140 Base attack to sweep.
Weather will be a lot less dominating than last gen, as all auto-weather abilities have been nerfed.
Mega Aggron can't hold an item. =P
I have a feeling Mega TTar is gonna be the main weather we see, since it's capable before and after Mega Evolution. Rain will be seen a lot still, especially if Swift Swim isn't banned with it this time around.
Sticky web is going to make Galvantula OU.
Sticky web and defog buff are going to be a nightmare for hyper offensive teams should they become popular, which will give way for more bulky offensive techniques.
Forget Galvantula, we've got Ariados! =DDD
Yeah, so I really hope Forretress doesn't get Sticky Web. I hope it's a very, very small amount of Pokemon that get it, and I also hope that most of them are awful. I hate Sticky Web as a concept, because if it's given to something good, both sides are running Sticky Web just to tie with the other. Unlike in the cases of other entry hazards, both sides put it up because it's helping you further your goal of making the opponent's Pokemon lose all of their health, but if this becomes popular, it's forcing you to put it up just to be on a level playing field with the opponent, which we already were.
However, if it's only given to a few Pokemon that aren't used very much, and have exploitable weaknesses, then it becomes a gamble to use it, but the risk is worth the reward.
A lot of conjecture RE: the metagame seems pretty pointless, especially since even if we think something /might be/ banned or end up nerfed, it still could be legal and twelve pages of discussion is just for nothing. A lot of information is still unknown which makes it especially hard to discern the impact of most of the new features with X and Y.
Personally, I hope there's a battle tier that includes teams with mega evolutions, and one without, as I dislike the mega evolution idea and... well, pretty much the entire concept. It definitely sucks to go up against a team with a mega evolved Pokémon with some basics to fight back.
I have always preferred the UU/RU/NU/BL tiers, more fun to work with a little more... random and unexpected, and the new Pokémon seem to have a lot of little niche effects which potentially don't fare well up in OU... time will tell where most of these Pokémon (and even old Pokémon) end up, I have been watching the boards and other sites to keep track of information, stats, movepools and so on... but at the moment it all seems pretty vague, hard to even tell which moves are distributed by breeding!
So, what about Kangaskan (for give my spelling)?
The mega's ability seems interesting.
Quote from: Richard and Blaziken on October 22, 2013, 08:12
Mega Aggron can't hold an item. =P
Whoops, oh yeah xD
Quote from: Richard and Blaziken on October 22, 2013, 10:47
However, if it's only given to a few Pokemon that aren't used very much, and have exploitable weaknesses, then it becomes a gamble to use it, but the risk is worth the reward.
The problem is that, say it was only given to be drill (worst bug type I can think of atm xD), he can just hold a focus sash. It's counterable, yes, but it's very rare to have the counter (multi-hit attacks).
However, assuming it's rebounded by magic bounce, we could have magic bounce being near essential on teams if this is wide spread.
Personally, I'm pretty interested with Charizard. With the inclusion of more accsessible SR removers and his dragon typing on his X mega evolution, I feel like he might manage to scrape back into standard play as a choice band sweeper perhaps? Otherwise, I'm pretty interested in how the mega evolutions will affect tierings of other pokemon as well, such as absol and manetric.
The possible mindgames with mega-evolutions are also pretty important to note. Now, when you see that charizard or mewtwo in someone's party before a match starts, you have to think about whether it will by physical or special based.
Exploud gets Scrappy Boomburst... And as mentioned on page 1, Boomburst is 140 BP and special. With STAB that becomes 210 BP...
Granted, Exploud isn't the best special attacker ever, but a 210 BP move with only 2 resists (Rock & Steel) and then perfect neutral coverage is pretty amazing, especially given he learns Focus Blast and Fire Blast too, giving him completely perfect neutral coverage (I think?).
another thing i realised, they nerfed the base damage of hidden power, right? Will that change its concentration in the game?
The nerf to Hidden Power is annoying, but it's only used on Pokemon that have a 4x weakness to a type, so that's still all it'll be used for. A less competitive option than it has ever been, but special attackers with shallow movepools still need it to cover certain threats.
Hey, I'm using Aeguslash with
Leftovers
Stance Switch
Adament
Evs: 252 hp 252 Atk 4 SpD
Shadow Claw
King's Shield
Sacred Sword
Iron head
May switch SC with shadow sneak
All sound moves apparently hit through Substitute. Exploud is too good now xD
Well then.
Boom Burst now needs a nerf.
Small tip, Blaze: Aegilslash in my experience works better with -Speed nature and 0 IVs, as you only want him to take hits in shield form. It works like this:
Kings Shield (SS)
They attack, you don't get hurt (SS)
----
They attack, you take minor damage (SS)
You attack (BS)
---
Kings shield (SS)
You see, you never take much damage.
Quote from: ShinyBlaziken2000 on October 27, 2013, 12:33
Well then.
Boom Burst now needs a nerf.
No, no it doesn't. It's distribution is pitiful and it doesn't hit anything for super effective. Noivern doesn't even get STAB on it and Exploud is crap.
/
Quote from: ディック on October 27, 2013, 12:35
Small tip, Blaze: Aegilslash in my experience works better with -Speed nature and 0 IVs, as you only want him to take hits in shield form. It works like this:
Kings Shield (SS)
They attack, you don't get hurt (SS)
----
They attack, you take minor damage (SS)
You attack (BS)
---
Kings shield (SS)
You see, you never take much damage.
At least spell it right.
Also, I know what I'm doing, although it may work.
You do realise you spell Aegislash wrong everytime, right? xD
You also spelled Adamant wrong.
And it's stance change, not stance switch.
But anyway, Back to the actual topic, I think Boomburst will send Exploud up to RU and maybe UU
I thought Exploud was NU.
Meh.
Currently, yeah. But that's because they've left the gen V tiers as they are for now. But once they work it out properly, I think he might make it to RU and possibly UU depending on just how powerful a 210 BP move with only two resists (both of which he can cover with Focus Blast) will be...
Considering that this generation's UU will be home to some of last generations less used OU Pokémon, Exploud in UU is just not going to happen. Never. He's still stupidly slow and gets destroyed by any fighting move. Boomburst is hardly going to see him rocket from miserable usage in NU all the way to UU. RU on a good day, but even then I'm not 100% sold.
Apparently Talonflame is absolutely monstrous with his hidden ability, with priority acrobatics or brave bird able rip through unprepared teams. His sheer strength means than even his checks aren't completely safe, but this is still early days, so watch this space.
Problem with Talonflame is his attack isn't so great; Only base 80. Of course, it learns swords dance to remedy this, but many weaknesses (including a 4x weakness to Rock) doesn't help it's case!
I think it might be OU, but it depends what he can actually hurt. Obviously if OU happens to have a lot of flying resists in, he'll probably slip down to UU (where we'll end up with another Mienshao: Absurdly powerful in UU, but doesn't quite cut OU)
Quote from: Liam on October 27, 2013, 13:55
Considering that this generation's UU will be home to some of last generations less used OU Pokémon, Exploud in UU is just not going to happen. Never. He's still stupidly slow and gets destroyed by any fighting move. Boomburst is hardly going to see him rocket from miserable usage in NU all the way to UU. RU on a good day, but even then I'm not 100% sold.
Apparently Talonflame is absolutely monstrous with his hidden ability, with priority acrobatics or brave bird able rip through unprepared teams. His sheer strength means than even his checks aren't completely safe, but this is still early days, so watch this space.
Talonflame's only got base 81 Attack, I can't imagine it's too big a threat. Heatran laughs it away, bulky Waters don't care about it, it's walled by Rock types, Stealth Rock rips it in half, forcing it to Roost upon entry... I can't imagine this will be used in OU too much at all. I don't even think it's as good as Staraptor, to be honest.
Talonflame has a lot of things that set him apart from Staraptor. First of all, his offensive typing is very dangerous and does cause a lot of switches, giving him a turns to set up with moves like Swords dance or Bulk up (neither of which Staraptor have). He is in a unique speed tier which allows him to get past base 125s, or go adamant and invest enough to get past base 110s. You shouldn't underestimate his ability either, because it allows him to revenge a lot of Pokémon very easily (choice band priority brave birds hit like trucks, priority flying gem acrobatics (with swords dance) also hit like trucks). The only time you can switch in safely into +2 Talonflame is when it is setting up, otherwise you'll be taking at least 50% health, unless you're a dedicated counter.
Talonflame has wil-o-wisp too which is fun (and can't be burned that way in return). Also priority roost.
I really like the look of Talonflame, it's early days but wherever I go (apart from here lol) all I can see is very high praise for him.
I will concede that at first he may seem quite underwhelming and his stealth rock weakness is a bummer, but to say he's a worse version of Staraptor is not right.
That all sounds nice in theory, but dedicated counters aren't hard to accidentally have if you just have a Rock type that isn't weak to U-Turn.
Of course it sounds nice in theory, there's no solid metagame yet so anything here is bound to just be theory.
Rock type isn't the most present type in OU, aside fron Tyranitar and Terrakion. Tyranitar is going to put a stop to it, pretty much, but I wouldn't want to switch a Terrakion into a Brave bird (I calculated choice band bb as a 2hko I think). Can't see Tyrantrum, Aurorus or Carbink being hugely popular options. Bulky waters will be dented, but they deal with Talonflame well, yeah. Aside from that (and Heatran), that leaves quite a large portion of Pokémon that can be smashed by Talonflame, it's ability really allows it to act as a premier revenge killer.
Good point.
It could be the Physical Volcanora (excuse my spelling), it could be the next kecleon (Totally useless, unless you like confusion).
Guess we'd better test the thing
I just feel like people are giving it more credit for being able to get going than it actually deserves. It requires a spinner, needs a turn to setup with bad defensive typing and stats, and is completely walled by one of the most common Pokemon in the past two generations.
As for Rock types, that's fair enough, there aren't many used in past generations of OU, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they won't be used this gen, especially if this turns out to be as big a threat as you're saying it will be. I understand why you're saying it's a threat, I just disagree that it'll be as big in OU as you're saying. Priority Brave Bird and Acrobatics is nice, though.
Stone edge is pretty common as well.
I doubt it will be top of the range OU (a lot of people seem to be using it right now, but that's not a fair reflection until the hype dies down), but I do think that it will have a solid place as an OU Pokémon. I just don't think that it should be disregarded because of its stats and defensive typing, it has a lot of things pulling it forward.
Aegislash with king's shield is working well.
Aegislash is pretty easy to play around provided good prediction, he's good but he isn't as good as Talonflame he's being made out to be.
speaking of stealth rocks, how does everyone feel about the defog buff? It gives a nice alternative to the almost mandatory rapid spinner and means its less necessary to have a dedicated entry hazard setter.