So I'm not going to make post #1000001 about how activity on the forum is low. Instead I'm going to suggest something; weekly or biweekly columns on something random. Not on pkmn.net, but just something where someone or a group of people continuously update a thread with talking points.
For instance, Richard has the Pokemon of the Week thing. I did the Video Game Review weekly thing, which I did not feel was very well received despite praise; no one wanted to read through 20K characters of just me rambling about a game, with no pictures or anything.
I was thinking things like, football legends of the week in Sports (american football and/or soccer), football teams every two weeks, a video game music series, or a series where someone talks about a game or we have a weekly video game "book club" type thing. Hell, for Pokemon stuff, we could do "Pokemon Routes of the day" or "Gym Leader of the fortnight" or something random like that.
Any thoughts? I don't want to hear things like "I like those ideas", I want to hear more specific ideas, more refinement in these ideas, hammering out some specifics, etc. It's hard to get content on this site when other places get them faster, so I figure we should take it the other way and try to make it more community based. We did pride ourselves on being quirky once upon a time and this is a rather quirky thing to do I think.
Let me say one thing though; we can post these reviews and all of that all we want, but it doesn't make a difference if no one shows interest. The point is to stimulate discussion; I didn't like in my review thread how people just went "wow nice review, this game looks cool." I wanted people to ask questions about them, talk about certain themes in more detail, etc. Make comparisons maybe? I have no idea. I could bring it back, and instead of making it a review format, putting a lot more visuals to it and putting on paragraph-long descriptions of things. I know everyone didn't like sifting through two whole posts about a video game they may not have played or won't plan on playing.
I want some substance on here, and while you may be doing something interesting or you may be sad on something that'll make you want to vent in certain Random Randomness threads, I don't feel there's much substance to it. If that's what you like, then by all means. I'm also not saying that we take these things seriously, although I probably will to some extent because my idea of humor isn't silly so much as bitterly sarcastic, but I want a good mix of things. "Pokemon route of the fortnight" has plenty of room for silliness, "video game review of the fortnight" has less room for silliness but it's definitely a common bond we all share in terms of video games. Video Game book club is cool too because we can talk about games we've mutually played and maybe get someone else interested in it. Who knows?
Knowing me, I could probably write up a route of the day sort of thing (I like that :P) but nothing really until I get this dissertation out of the way (So, like, October). I don't think we need to cover actual content as much, every other site out there does it for us. I do like that one thing we always have done is to not take ourselves too seriously, so something small but fun would work quite well.
Also, shotgun route of the day (read: week/fortnight). Even if it's not a long article, I will likely just point blindly at a random map from a random game and say "That'll do," but it will probably start with MooMoo farm, because that farmer is so sad it gives me hte feels =[
I don't think the Sports idea would work because there's only like, 5 posters who seem to show an interest and it's not really going to draw more people in
HOWEVER
I do like the idea of doing something quirky and Pokémon related because at least that does have the potential to spark interest in people who lurk. I agree we should avoid overly serious because there's other sources for that, we need to tap into our niche.
In terms of ideas, I'm thinking of like, a casual guide towards Gym Leaders I could do (to expand from your bi-weekly idea); perhaps a light hearted post which looks at what not to do against a certain Gym Leader. I mean, it'd probably be harder to write than some of the other options but if I can do it well it can end up fun, right?
Example: (basing off Emerald since I've just done that)
Brawly - Fighting Type
what not to do: use a Geodude you just caught from Granite Cave, explain why
a Whismur you may have caught in Rusturf Tunnel, explain why
etc.
but comically or whatnot
obviously I'd bulk it out, go semi serious by stating what he has in his team but then maybe look at each Pokémon specifically and say what won't work. I mean, you always get these guides telling you what you should do but I don't think there's anything to say what you shouldn't do.
even if it's a bad idea I can always trial it and if it's crap then we can move on and try something else
In terms of general community stuff, I think we should definitely try and revive some sort of IRC activity because there has been a consistent amount of people showing up in the chat for a good few moments now. We could always base it off the old quizzes which used to be done back in the day; just pick an old (or current) game-show and base it on that; we could make it Pokémon related or anything really.
We could always do events in the sense of, on such and such, everyone in the chat can all play say Pokémon Platinum together or whatever, really laid back and enjoyable where we can all talk about how we're doing in terms of progress, in terms of enjoyment, etc. Nothing serious, just nice little gatherings of discussion and whatnot. We could even have topics to show the progress, show who's involved (it doesn't even need to be written up in the form of Nuzlocke or story, just briefly what everyone has and other fun suggestions people can add, even if they aren't playing).
I'll try and think of more stuff tomorrow (it's late atm and I am thinking off of minimal sleep so sorry if these are terrible) but yeah, it's a start at least =P
I'm starting a stream at 8pm on Sundays (GMT), which I believe is a time that suits most people, found here. (http://pkmn.net/forums/index.php?topic=105737.msg2392084#msg2392084) I'd love it if people could join me in chat then discuss the stream in the thread, see what Pokemon they want me to nickname. I've got a poll up and running for starter at the moment.
It has potential to be a lot of fun ^^
Sappy it would be cool if there were actually a thread about the stream too, as opposed to just IRC. Not everyone's gonna be in the IRC.
QuoteBrawly - Fighting Type
what not to do: use a Geodude you just caught from Granite Cave, explain why
a Whismur you may have caught in Rusturf Tunnel, explain why
I'm not thinking in terms of guides, but more in terms of like a fake biography (Brawly puts the Bra in Brawl), or maybe even a war story type thing. Just a bunch of fluff pieces that are kinda dumb but funny.
I don't believe we should have all funny; just some serious (well semi-serious) and some funny. A good balance.
//reaches into my own ass// wow do i have two terrible ideas for you!!! no idea why im posting them instead of keeping them to myself like i do most things but here we go
"RU/NU Pokemon Makeover Of The Week/Fortnight/whatever"
collaborative effort on the forum to enrich the underdogs of pokemon and bring some livelihood to the boring ivory tower "i memorised a bunch of charts" state of current competitive battling,
random scrub-tier RU/UU pokemon are chosen by............i dunno who chooses it, maybe "staff" can choose it, maybe you choose a bunch and people vote for who they want to discuss
people try their hardest to figure out a moveset or ways to use a pokemon or several in a team that's totally unexpected or makes use of an otherwise useless trait, a la the recent pokemon championship Follow Me!Parachisu double battle thing. it'd be something that isn't just the same old "heh, OU pokemon of the week, this is why this will win every time with minimal effort from me, ffffaaaarrrrtttt,"
it'd force people to be Creative and give forgotten pokemon some love, would also Excite Members because their fave (who they cant battle w/ cos it sucks) would finally get attention. Could possibly be a hugboxy "safe space" sandbox for people to learn/explore NU/RU/UU tier, i dont know how common those are here
possibly the forum would have a Surprise Strategy for an OU threat that they cooked up all by themselves w/o sucking it off some other forum since theres some vague animosity and competition amongst all these pokemon forums for some reason,
i know this place likes the "gym challenge" stuff so you could probably do Type Challenges and have a bunch of badges, try to beat an initially daunting team w/ ur crappy team, all "i won the underdog tournament" awards and all that kind of stuff, some slushy crap about "its the trainer who makes the pokemon, bluhhhh if u r a good trainer u bring out the best in all pokemon", thered be big sloppy makeouts between all members
"Nostalgia, The Worst Drug" Pokemon Championships
a kind of Retro Throwback Week, where you'd set up competitions but only be allowed to use pokemon from, say, a certain gen
maybe even item/move restrictions, make it like olde gen days and try to provide a Retro Experience for people who were late onto the scene, could indulge all those intolerable nerds who wont shut up about "ohhhh only Gen I is the best" so during Gen I month they could just go "hnngngngnggnnhhhh gushhhhh this was my first competitive team i love it so much hhwwooaarhhh"
all of you twentysomethings could get misty-eyed over Old Pokemon Days
everyone would have to switch their avatars to like, Gen w/e style and someoen could write up a small self indulgent piece on What This Game Meant To Me
you get the idea, it'd be hardcore nostalgic stuff which lets face it all of us who have been around since Gen I miss terribly
ofc with either of these ideas it'd have to be Pokemon Of The Month instead of fortnight since "shortlist ---> vote ----> breed n train ----> competition ----> hot slushy mess" would not be a quick and dry process, but ideally something different from the usual "competitive battling with boring OU pokemon" cos that kind of stuff is like, yawn, who cares imo
idk if this is possible since i care not for competitive battling in the least so i dont know whether "lets try to polish this turd of a pokemon" or "lets pretend its 2003" is even feasible or whether people could be arsed to do it and mantain it
not to mention i haven't been on here long enough to know whether you lot pulled htis off already, which you probably have!! oh well
im just making this up as i go along really so thats why its such a mess and massively long and also a clown idea that i think is fit to post, but i had fun here so thats all that matters really
^Just spent 3 hours today and 4 yesterday writing my boring article that no one cares about. Only 6 paragraphs are on boring chart memorization, though.
Anyway, in terms of ideas, I'd be down for some gimmick tournaments or old generation battling tournaments or whatever. I can't really manage more than one article a week, but having someone that actively plays one of these tiers write articles about these Pokemon and their role in that metagame would be very interesting, to me at least. Once I run out of OU Pokemon, I'll be discussing UU, BL, and maybe some RU Pokemon and their use in OU, but not in the tier they reside in, so having someone dedicated to discussing how the Pokemon functions in its own tier would be cool.
If we could actually get more members interested in tournaments, this wouldn't be a problem, but many tournaments lately have had little interest in them, so that's why they sort of died out. I'm almost always up for a tournament though, so if we were to organize something like "Gimmick Tournament Of The Month", I'd be interested in it.
Quote from: LOOK AROUND YOG. on August 24, 2014, 02:22
//reaches into my own ass// wow do i have two terrible ideas for you!!! no idea why im posting them instead of keeping them to myself like i do most things but here we go
Don't say this; I'd rather hear ideas than none at all.
In all honesty I think this thread should be something to bounce ideas around and see what people want. If you want to do it, then go ahead and do it, nobody's stopping you. Maybe you can create your own thread for that one idea to bounce ideas around too, but I just want to see how much interest a weekly/biweekly/etc kind of discussion would get (I forget the term to describe an increment of a period of time). I really like your ideas, though. They're relatively creative, cool, and also some perspective (and I mean that term positively) to newer players, like for instance any of the 13 year olds we may have (the ones who were born after RBY came out).
I like the thought of doing like a collaborative nuzlocke or something, we all play the same game and sort of making it into a little competition. Like what Mark did with his red play through and asked people to vote on nicknames but the voters decide as we go along what pokemon we're allowed to catch, making it interactive. All our journeys could intertwine. Yeah this probably sounds dumb but idk.
I personally would maybe do something art/sprite based? Maybe critiquing the design of a voted for pokemon and we decide on how it should have been designed and just get right into the origins of a pokemon (like dragoncats really interesting unearthed section!) . Like others have said we could have a theme so we only did really cliche or odd pokemon (say voltorb/klink/bergmite/swalot - off the top of my head there) and try to improve them or even make them worse! Everyone could sprite/draw their idea and we vote on the best and worst each week/fortnightly/monthly?
QuoteYeah this probably sounds dumb but idk.
As I said before, there's no dumb ideas and you mentioned a good idea. I don't really wanna here someone saying something like this; even if it were a bad idea the worst that's gonna happen is someone's gonna comment on it and point out an issue (see: what GL did above).
As Samir/Yog and Richard stated, there are other ways of playing Pokémon.
This said, I feel that it is a necessity to write a guide for trolling in competitive (and how it usually fails). And, of course, writing about many Pokémon that are not very well used but do have a niche.
Of course, I will pick my number so that I can assure I have a chance to write them.
Also, as stated before, some streams coming from this site would help increasing the activity, especially if a team does them in order to keep some variety and activity between streamers. The ebst example of this is Vinesauce, which has a large number of views and many regular streamers, thus keeping momentum like a scarfed Scizor.
Another feature that could work is announcing Nintendo promotions (like sales in both retail format and eShop one), due to the fact everyone likes Nintendo, but not giving too much money for their products.
Quote from: Lord Raven on August 24, 2014, 01:51
Sappy it would be cool if there were actually a thread about the stream too, as opposed to just IRC. Not everyone's gonna be in the IRC.
There is a thread, I linked to it haha.
Quote from: Lord Raven on August 24, 2014, 01:51
I'm not thinking in terms of guides, but more in terms of like a fake biography (Brawly puts the Bra in Brawl), or maybe even a war story type thing. Just a bunch of fluff pieces that are kinda dumb but funny.
I don't believe we should have all funny; just some serious (well semi-serious) and some funny. A good balance.
Oh right, I've got you. Yeah, I do agree that it's all about finding the right balance, if we're gonna do things like this we need to come across with a certain charm
@ YOG
as a sort of advancement of that idea (or something that could go alongside or whatever) I think maybe a "community picks" idea could work where people who wish to contribute towards giving a certain Pokémon shine can be allowed, where they post why they love the mon, what assets it can have, stuff like that. People put their name down and then people can be randomly picked and if they're picked they are good to go. It can highlight the community aspect whilst giving everyone's Pokémon exposure.
plus, if needs be, people can go again and whatnot so it can be a consistent way of getting something out there
I'm not about to say these ideas are easy to implement or non-controversial but in my opinion I think the best things for this community/site would be as follows:
1)
Get rid of the "What's making you sad/happy/confused/hungry/angry/whatever" threads. The rest of Random Randomness is basically irrelevant with these because it discourages people to make threads about everyday chit-chat and goings on in their life as most of them fit into those threads instead. What then happens is RR becomes a dumping ground for "le cheese!!!"-tier threads that I personally feel is a waste of time contributing to and probably won't give outsiders a great opinion of the community.
I'm not trying to say no fun allowed or anything like that, but it seems like 90% of posts in RR are the equivalent of either facebook status updates, or topics that are so 'random' they give no incentive to post. If we got rid of the former then it might encourage people to make slightly more inclusive chit-chat threads instead.
2)
Get the news regularly updated and sort out the commenting system. I think comments are probably the best entry point for new users to 'sample' the community. Thanks to how the internet has developed, I think more than ever people want to make comments on news articles without having to sign up/login etc. If we updated the Pokemon news on the main page regularly and got a commenting system in place like disqus, the members here would be more inclined to comment and non-users would be interested in commenting too.
To give you and example, this is how I use PKMN.NET:
- Click on the shortcut to pkmn.net/forums on my bookmarks toolbar
- Browse forums
I don't bother with the main site because what's the point? I'm not trying to detract from the people who do write content, but all my news comes from other sources because frankly they are more up-to-date and better laid out than PKMN.NET. The only thing I notice that the other sites don't do is offer a commenting system, so many times I've had to either post on here (Not a problem, the discussion forums are great) or make posts on /vp/ instead, and we all know what that's like.
When it comes to Pokemon discussion, we're actually head and shoulders above the rest. I've gone through a lot of discussion boards and there really isn't much to separate them - same discussion, nothing really interesting or thought-out. Meanwhile on here we've actually got some extremely smart members, people who were the first to figure out a lot of the underlying lore of Pokemon and theories which have ended up being true more than once.
tl;dr - we've got a good community in terms of discussion quality, we need to play to our strength for that, but we no longer live in an age where people will bypass a site to check out a forum when alternatives exist. The main site needs overhauling and needs to invite comments (preferably anonymous, monitored comments too) so people can interact with the community and leave their thoughts without having to commit to creating an account.
Maybe some of this sounds harsh, and I know the work that's involved in doing this too - so I'm not expecting instant results, but I do think there's a big oversight going on. Some of the suggestions regarding regular columns and so on are great and would be attractive in 2007, but the way people browse the internet and partake in online communities has changed, almost all of this is fruitless and will eventually be abandoned if the actual entry point to the site itself isn't modernized. Social media may well be a fad that dies out, so I'm not suggesting everything becomes linked to twitter and facebook (I actually despise sites that do this) but the technology isn't going away and the way people browse the web isn't going backwards either.
^ I think if we're going to get new site news going in regards to Pokémon updates the articles themselves need to implement a conversational approach alongside the commentating system, just a small change in writing style could make a big difference, rather than making it come across completely serious and factual add some light-heartedness, some discursive points and whatnot to get people to comment on them and then hopefully move onto the forums for future discussions. I think too we should link in possible threads to these articles too.
I think also going on what we're strong at (and I know people are busy so please don't take this as a way of "you must drop everything to do this" sort of thing) but Name Rater and Sentret needs updating because the former especially is one of the key ways to bring in new members. Plus, we can add their "opinions" and other topics of discussion as well; plus I know having talked to some of the members on IRC recently that there's still a lot of hype and intrigue behind them.
^you beat me to the name rater point, thats where probably a good half of our members come from and if you cant submit anything than what is the point
Quote from: Turner on August 24, 2014, 17:15
I'm not about to say these ideas are easy to implement or non-controversial but in my opinion I think the best things for this community/site would be as follows:
1) Get rid of the "What's making you sad/happy/confused/hungry/angry/whatever" threads. The rest of Random Randomness is basically irrelevant with these because it discourages people to make threads about everyday chit-chat and goings on in their life as most of them fit into those threads instead. What then happens is RR becomes a dumping ground for "le cheese!!!"-tier threads that I personally feel is a waste of time contributing to and probably won't give outsiders a great opinion of the community.
I'm not trying to say no fun allowed or anything like that, but it seems like 90% of posts in RR are the equivalent of either facebook status updates, or topics that are so 'random' they give no incentive to post. If we got rid of the former then it might encourage people to make slightly more inclusive chit-chat threads instead.
I disagree here. For one thing, getting rid of the sad thread is pretty...silly. Would anyone's threads about people's individual antics / problems be any better? The sad thread / annoying thread are safe spots to vent about problems, and it'd be better to keep them instead of littering RR with topics like "I'm Happy Because I Just Had Pizza!" or "I Hate People" (though the latter sounds pretty interesting, bad example!). Without those threads, RR wouldn't be as active.
Let's go ahead and say there won't be a rewrite of any of the site's systems. The time isn't there, the will isn't there, and implementing a different system isn't trivial.
If you want to point at current (old) staff having to do things, you are out of luck at this point.
Quote from: Lord Raven on August 24, 2014, 09:04
Don't say this; I'd rather hear ideas than none at all.
apologies, im still not v good at the whole "say stuff w/o immolating oneself in the process", its something im working on though cos dang im aware that its irritating as all heck
Quote from: Turner on August 24, 2014, 17:15
1) Get rid of the "What's making you sad/happy/confused/hungry/angry/whatever" threads. The rest of Random Randomness is basically irrelevant with these because it discourages people to make threads about everyday chit-chat and goings on in their life as most of them fit into those threads instead. What then happens is RR becomes a dumping ground for "le cheese!!!"-tier threads that I personally feel is a waste of time contributing to and probably won't give outsiders a great opinion of the community.
this'd be a perfect way to kill activity tbh,
given that a lot of people on the site are Socially Awkward in conventional senses, some of them aren't willing to go through the Social Effort that making a new topic entails, and those that do only get about two or three replies, i.e. someones "i only thought this happenedi n animes" which was about some, girl problems or something??? idk
the "whats ____ing you now?" topics are a nice ice-breaker for a lot of awkward nerds here and a way to just sorta say something w/o thinking too hard about it - half of keeping activity going is Retention Of Users, and killing a space where people can drop in and go "blughhh had all of my teeth removed and shoved up my butt, wasn't fun" might not be met with favour for many,
i know that if my "livejournal style" topic home were removed i'd probably just go elsewhere on the internet tbh
i'd like to comment on the name rater thing but i have honestly no idea what the heck it is and i can't seem to figure out what it is either
Quote from: LOOK AROUND YOG. on August 24, 2014, 19:16
i'd like to comment on the name rater thing but i have honestly no idea what the heck it is and i can't seem to figure out what it is either
The Name Rater is part of the site which usually draws most of our users (http://pkmn.net/?action=rater)
Agreed with the don't get rid of the What's ________ topics; they pretty much keep RR alive
In defense of the "right now" topics, I do agree that a lot of the stuff isn't topic-worthy. I would definitely promote that if you notice that you post something in one of those "right now" topics, and if it generates more than, like, 2 replies, maybe you should make a topic. for example, there are probably plenty of people who want to put their own two cents in on a topic like ferguson, for example, but having a lengthy discussion on an unrelated thread isn't the ideal place to do it. however, most of the time when i post stuff, it's about things that are mostly trivial or just don't deserve their own topic (ie. pooping in public toilets)
i just feel like forums in general are mostly getting stomped by facebook and stuff, and we can't expect to be like we were in 2008, just because the internet was much different in 2008. pokemon was much bigger in 2008. iirc, pokemon in general just hasn't been doing as well since black and white's release. we can also probably, like always, expect a boost in activity when r/s/e remakes come out.
Quote from: GL. on August 24, 2014, 17:34
^ I think if we're going to get new site news going in regards to Pokémon updates the articles themselves need to implement a conversational approach alongside the commentating system, just a small change in writing style could make a big difference, rather than making it come across completely serious and factual add some light-heartedness, some discursive points and whatnot to get people to comment on them and then hopefully move onto the forums for future discussions. I think too we should link in possible threads to these articles too.
I think also going on what we're strong at (and I know people are busy so please don't take this as a way of "you must drop everything to do this" sort of thing) but Name Rater and Sentret needs updating because the former especially is one of the key ways to bring in new members. Plus, we can add their "opinions" and other topics of discussion as well; plus I know having talked to some of the members on IRC recently that there's still a lot of hype and intrigue behind them.
Yeah it would be nice to link comments to the actual forums themselves, maybe link forum topics to the news article and put comments directly in there. So every time a news article is created it creates a respective thread on the relevant forum which would then have the comments of the article directly in there, which would further justify moderation of comments and would also automatically put non-member commenters in the forums, so they end up being a part of the community by default.
Obviously though, the problem with this is down to SimpleMachines Forum and whether or not this is possible/realistic. Most of the things with the site are down to Joeno or whoever he authorizes to make changes, I understand he's very much stripped for time so he can't just magic this stuff up for us.
I think though before everything else we just need the site re-hauled which is obviously a mission unto itself. I think without that we're always going to end up in the vicious cycle of requests for content which eventually gets abandoned.
In the interest of "Yes we can" - implementing reCaptcha was fairly straightforward (and now something I can use again and again), so guest commenting has been enabled.
These are always captcha'd, registering allows you to bypass the captcha. I also need some new comment moderators soon.
Quote from: Joeno on August 24, 2014, 21:29
These are always captcha'd, registering allows you to bypass the captcha. I also need some new comment moderators soon.
I am more than happy to help with this
Quote from: еcho on August 24, 2014, 20:10
In defense of the "right now" topics, I do agree that a lot of the stuff isn't topic-worthy. I would definitely promote that if you notice that you post something in one of those "right now" topics, and if it generates more than, like, 2 replies, maybe you should make a topic. for example, there are probably plenty of people who want to put their own two cents in on a topic like ferguson, for example, but having a lengthy discussion on an unrelated thread isn't the ideal place to do it. however, most of the time when i post stuff, it's about things that are mostly trivial or just don't deserve their own topic (ie. pooping in public toilets)
I think it's more worthy of forum games than Random Randomness, because "What are you Listening to" is there as well. I'm also going to point out that it does kind of suck activity out of the rest of Random Randomness, because it feels like the other threads get their week of sunshine then it goes back to the "right now" threads
Quotei just feel like forums in general are mostly getting stomped by facebook and stuff, and we can't expect to be like we were in 2008, just because the internet was much different in 2008. pokemon was much bigger in 2008. iirc, pokemon in general just hasn't been doing as well since black and white's release. we can also probably, like always, expect a boost in activity when r/s/e remakes come out.
And I agree but this mentality isn't going to help us boost activity with the userbase we have now. People are clearly joining and leaving almost as quickly as they joined. Retaining them somehow in some way is nice, especially considering we have at least 30 consistently active users that can do things.
It's not that I want this to be 2008 again (really 2006-2007 - that's when DP came out and that was crazy enough for us to promote a bunch of gmods/admins) but I also don't want this stupid low "posts in only twitter-like threads" sense of activity. It's like nobody really wants a discussion here at all, either. It is really discouraging to people like me who wanted discussion and didn't get it; it's why I don't post as much here myself.
I think also the idea that facebook and twitter have destroyed forums is proving to be less and less true. There was a time from around 2009-2013 where that was true, but it seems like things are moving on again. I'm not saying there's some kind of magical resurgence in forums, but people are looking for alternative places from discussion as interest in social media wanes.
As I said before, you only need to look at the forums of other larger Pokemon sites to see that discussion is alive and well. 4chan's Pokemon board is pretty fast paced - I'd say 5-10 new threads every minute on average. I'm sure Reddit has numerous Pokemon boards which are also active.
PKMN.NET has always been known for the community; people are looking for communities more now than they were in the social media boom; all we need to do is make it easy for people to keep visiting the site, become involved in the community and the rest will fall into place.
Me, Del and I'm not sure who else are now currently comment moderators, plus Joeno has now implemented re-captcha. The re-captcha is removed for anyone with an account which means anonymous posters who find themselves coming back to comment have incentive to join the community. Last night within a couple of hours the comment moderators cleaned out the comment approval queue with a backlog of 800 comments - so the manpower is there.
If we look at a site like slashdot, the news stories are almost always reader-submitted and don't differ greatly in writing style. If we can spread the workload amongst a group of trusted content moderators, we can get a group of people who Joeno feels are capable of accepting submitted news articles and/or rewriting them to fit the tone of the site if necessary. That way users can submit news or interest items themselves and the moderators can approve/disapprove it before it ends up on the site; this would be much faster than tasking 5 people with a solid responsibility to keep on top of Pokemon news and consistently write about them nearly every day but would still ensure the quality doesn't decrease.
Could we at least attempt a trial period where we remove the "what's making you x y z" threads from RR. If we're going to be comparing social medoa to forums then we need to realise that threads which are in the similar mould to updating a FB status are not going to stimulate discussion, which is after all the main draw of a forum.
I have to admit that I wasn't aware of the changes made to commenting, now that I'm aware of it being more accessible I could always contribute some articles or content.
The comment stuff is cool.
I agree with Liam at least in terms of a trial period. I don't mind being wrong, but I'd like to see if it helps or hurts.
It doesn't seem worth the risk when it's the sort of change that could semi-permanently deter currently active people from coming here.
For a valid measurement you'd need clear indicators of success or failure anyway. What would you expect the test to change, other than a general and vague "the discussion improves"?
We can just see if topic creation goes up, since as I pointed out, there's some stuff that can be made into a topic in there. I mean, this isn't the first time that a bunch of people have said to get rid of those topics. I could lock at least my own thread, as it generates the most replies, and then people would still be able to complain in the sad and annoying topics. And I mean, maybe if activity ends up going up in those other two topics and topic creation doesn't really improve, we can draw a conclusion that the threads just attract people that want to say a quick word about themselves and don't care for a conversation about it.
Quote from: Joeno on August 26, 2014, 08:00
It doesn't seem worth the risk when it's the sort of change that could semi-permanently deter currently active people from coming here.
I disagree here, I don't think we should be content with forum activity being centralised around monotonous and repetitive posts in 3 or so topics. We've had a good response in this topic and also in the IRC where members, including both older and newer ones, are willing to help boost activity. Closing these topics which as Raven put it suck the activity out of the rest of RR would push members towards creating more topics and more discussion. If active members are being deterred because the why are you xyz threads are closed then that's a damn shame, considering there's other topics to be started, other boards to be explored and (especially with the changes to commenting and content submission) other parts of the site to be tested. I'm not saying it's 100% going to work but I believe it's worth a shot.
I don't know I'm a little on the fence about this.
You have to remember that some people like posting in those topics, some people see them as safe spaces away from other people or just like to have a rant or whatever. I think if they closed then people would start making topics for any old thing that's happened to them and the board would be flooded with small threads with few replies. Then on the other hand the opposite could happen, people might think "oh I'm not sure if this is thread worthy or not" and end up not posting at all.
if we all just try and make threads that promote healthy discussion without going into debating or whatever it'd be better. Or make different threads like one for pets, fashion, school or whatever. I know its pigeon holing stuff a bit more but I've seen it on other forums and it works, current or relevant topics still get posted about. Even if someone posts about an interesting article they saw somewhere, obviously as long as it meets the rules.
(That was a bit rambly but yeah just my two cents.)
Quote from: Joeno on August 26, 2014, 08:00
It doesn't seem worth the risk when it's the sort of change that could semi-permanently deter currently active people from coming here.
For a valid measurement you'd need clear indicators of success or failure anyway. What would you expect the test to change, other than a general and vague "the discussion improves"?
I know this is aimed more towards Raven, but my opinion of it has always been that it's a little too much of a catch-all to the point where it deters making individual threads.
We have these "What's making you [feel] _____ right now?" which are basically big nets for emotion. Because you can boil down pretty much every life event into something that either makes you happy or sad there becomes less reason to make a thread about such things and may give people the impression that in doing so they're either creating an unnecessary thread (possibly breaking rules) or being too self-centred by making a thread purely about how they are feeling.
I'm not trying to demonize these threads at all because I don't think they're made with bad intentions or that they are the one single secret source behind the lack of activity but I do think there is a case to be made that RR pretty much exists for these subjects to be created as threads instead of all thrown into one thread, especially now that TV, Movies, Debate, Sports and Books all have their own child boards.
Examples of the types of threads people have made in the past include "I'm having trouble coming out as gay to my parents", "I just got my GCSE results" etc. which would now fit in the "What's making you sad/happy right now" threads respectively. Of course, people can still create those threads regardless, but from what we've seen in comparison to those threads not existing, people do not seem inclined to do so and it can certainly create the impression of a lack of activity when there are only a handful of active threads.
idk i feel we could merge those topics. like "whats making you feel some type of way right now" so theres not as many threads for fb status things as yall put it, just one. people just write how theyre feeling and vent a little. or even a "how was your day" so people can just do the same, vent or get hype about how their day went, ive seen a few forums do this one
id personally like to get the art threads going a little more. remember in pokemon world magazine thered be fakemon competitions? we could do something like that maybe, just have people send in their fakemon designs and have a team of judges pick out their favourites, but so people arent excluded they could do a neopets art gallery sort of deal where they hold on to entries that didnt get featured so they can feature them in next week/months judging. maybe every new round theres a Judges Pick section where the winner gets a prize, one of the competitive battlers/breeders could whip up some sort of shiny or perfect iv or w/e type pokemon to hand out to the winner, the prize changes every week.
itd be based on creativity, not art. so even those who arent big into art could enter, or even ask one of the artists on site to help them with their entry.
or art challenges? such as "this week, draw/sprite a pokemon team that would best suit [character from tv show/game/comic (with link to wikipedia about them so everyone gets a good idea of the character) or even just describe a person with a certain lifestyle]" and everyone draws out the sort of team they think would suit best. that might be fun. even just "draw this pokemon with a colour scheme that reminds you of autumn" or "draw this pokemon with three different genetic mutations/body types" i dunno.
on a forum i visit theres a "show me something recent" or "post a wip" too, we could make those threads, or "critique/say what you like about the drawing above you" so newer artists can get some pointers on what theyre doing right and what to improve on. we could try some art tutorial threads too, like how to do a certain trick in a certain program or how to colour in certain ways. none of this HOW TO DRAW LOL stuff, that never helps anyone.
i think if we had art resources people would be more inclined to enter the aforementioned fakemon thing.
also re: name rater, cant we hire a stand-in rater to just clear up the queue a little? like everyone said, everyone joins for the name rater and it doesnt even work, sort of disappointing to see!
i've honestly been thinking about how quiet the forums have been recently and there's not exactly a lot we can really do to get it back up. most of the active members are late teens to early twenties with some older and some younger - though the younger ones come on less and are usually discouraged by the way they sometimes get treated
pokemon just really isn't cool these days amongst the little ones - they're all playing their cod and other things. pokemon goes through phases of being cool and totally uncool (don't you remember being the only kid in high school who liked pokemon) and with facebook groups/tumblr/etc, people are turning to them rather than pokemon websites
i honestly remember being drawn in via the caption contest and the name rater. i have no idea how active those things are at the minute as i don't normally check them out as my usual hangout is random randomness and other places, but i'm sure they could do with some boost in activity
although i do remember the times of 90+ people online, with the spriting board, rp, etc, being super popular and threads would be buried within days if you didn't post in them. the sad thing is, these things just don't attract youngsters anymore. i don't really know why, but different places are attracting kids at the minute - ie, club penguin, and... other places iunno
as for solutions, getting rid of the "what's making you x right now" is a bad idea. they're popular enough and spark conversations within themselves. it's like saying "get rid of the what are you listening to now" topic. these topics are a hot bed of activity and we need to keep them that way
i don't know how many people look at the say hello board - i'm probably too abrasive to greet new people but being nice and helping people out will probably (but not certainly) encourage new members to explore the different places on the forum
perhaps some of the older features should be brought back? i remember pokemon big brother (didn't take much interest in it, but hey i was just boring back then lmao), and there were other things that... i don't remember but i know there were other things.
one way i've been thinking to revamp the spriting board is to complete the rest of the metagame - we haven't got gen five and six, so that could really bring in some activity to that board. if it gets any interest here, i'll post up the topic.
i apologise for how rambly this is
In defence of "What's making you ____ right now?" threads, I do think they're somewhat useful as a place to vent anger or whatever or to post things that are otherwise not really worthy of a thread.
Like, take Turner's example of "I just got my GCSE results". Is that really needing a thread for it? Maybe having a results thread in general idk, but I do think that where these threads are useful.
Also, I know I like to use the "What's annoying you or bugging you right now?" as a way to kind of... vent anger and possibly spark a conversation but not necessarily looking for one, which starting a thread would obviously be doing.
I think the problem comes when people post big things on their that are obviously going to spark discussion and should of been a thread. I'm pretty sure most of us have done it at some point, and that's where the problem with these threads comes. I know I'd be inclined to post a lot less in RR without them, because most stuff I'd be annoyed / saddened / happied (?) about either isn't relevant enough for a thread or I'd want advice from someone I trust (in the least offensive way possible xD)
Idk, that's just how I feel about it, I don't know if anyone else is like that or not but yeah.
----
Also, on the topic of content, I've been wanting to write some content for quite a while and have been brainstorming ideas on and off for like a month but I really can't think of a column that would actually be useful. One idea I had was like a "Break a pokemon with one minor change" sort of column, but I think it was Rich who pointed out it's very subjective, and tbf I don't think it'd be very interesting to read?
Whilst I don't agree that the premise of the threads should be removed or taken to Forum Games the idea of merging them into one thread is actually a great idea; make it into a "How are you feeling thread?" and allow posters to essentially say small, sentences to get a particular feeling off their chest that they don't feel is enough to warrant its own thread, plus it removes whatever clutter there may seem to be in regards to it.
EDIT: Also, I'd be more than happy to write a thread or whatever in Say Hello which breaks down each board and why it'd be a good opportunity to stick around and get to know us in the forums. If no one's opposed to this then I'll get it done tonight? It'd be different to the rules and tips in a nutshell thread because it'd try to be specific about each board and also what the community itself brings, I'll also edit the opening post with other contributive points if people wish to contribute. I mean, it may not guarantee people staying but it's worth a try, right?
feelings... aren't rly a game? and taking those topics and shoving them in forum games would again reduce the activity in random randomness?? i dont rly see what the point in moving them is when they are pretty much fine where they are?
Quote from: Shaymin on August 26, 2014, 20:47
pokemon just really isn't cool these days amongst the little ones - they're all playing their cod and other things. pokemon goes through phases of being cool and totally uncool (don't you remember being the only kid in high school who liked pokemon) and with facebook groups/tumblr/etc, people are turning to them rather than pokemon websites
Considering the kids playing CoD nowadays were born after R/B's release, I wouldn't blame those games for a lack of activity. Pokemon is still massively popular with numerous agegroups, it's still one of the biggest selling franchises of all time.
What you're mentioning above regarding tumblr is correct, but it's not because tumblr is arbitrarily being chosen for no reason. It's because tumblr has content; everything about tumblr is content. In the past, internet speeds were not fast enough to be endlessly scrolling through media posts or watching 1080p videogame trailers and LPs on YouTube - When D/P put Pokemon online, it was a huge game changer but was still difficult to arrange a match with friends. In those days, people sought out forums for discussion but now we live in a (internet) world of content everywhere. People would be crippled to discuss anything without having some sort of content as a trigger for discussion - that's where sites like Facebook and tumblr do so well for getting hits - you have a wall/dash and content is just cascading down it constantly and people find things from an large assortment to comment on - that's where the magic happens and that's why I personally think a more open content driven approach is better. Thinking in black and white terms of 'discussion forum' and 'News site' is old hat now and this kind of approach to a Pokemon fansite makes no sense to young Pokemon fans (of which there are many) who didn't grow up in the same internet landscape as we did.
music isn't a game either, but that's in forum games. i don't really care how it gets classed or moved around. if people want to post in those threads, it's not like its much extra trouble to click on forum games as opposed to random randomness. i don't have much input on the whole content thing, seeing as i haven't bought a pokemon game since i started high school. however, i do miss stuff like PokeMole. now, that generated discussion.
We had an idea in IRC.
To make nicknames be rated quickly we could enable users rating nicknames. Obviously there would have to be a moderator, but instead of writing out the whole name rater thing (Which I believe is the difficult part) they approve it.
Say I suggest "YOLO" for Yanma, but the person who rates it doesn't know it's me who submitted this.
Say Alex randomly ended up with it and then says "no, just nolo". Note: Alex doesn't know it's me who submitted it.
Then a moderator just has to approve. To keep up with tradition it just appears with "Name rater says: no, just nolo" to keep it anonymous.
It would probably make names rated a lot faster. While it may take a lot of initial work setting up, but it would take a load off of the name rater's back. Also include what every user's secretly wanted to do. The moderator would just enforce the tradition and make sure no-one goes "ew ur name sux" all the time.
Quote from: Turner on August 26, 2014, 20:33
I know this is aimed more towards Raven, but my opinion of it has always been that it's a little too much of a catch-all to the point where it deters making individual threads.
We have these "What's making you [feel] _____ right now?" which are basically big nets for emotion. Because you can boil down pretty much every life event into something that either makes you happy or sad there becomes less reason to make a thread about such things and may give people the impression that in doing so they're either creating an unnecessary thread (possibly breaking rules) or being too self-centred by making a thread purely about how they are feeling.
I'm not trying to demonize these threads at all because I don't think they're made with bad intentions or that they are the one single secret source behind the lack of activity but I do think there is a case to be made that RR pretty much exists for these subjects to be created as threads instead of all thrown into one thread, especially now that TV, Movies, Debate, Sports and Books all have their own child boards.
Examples of the types of threads people have made in the past include "I'm having trouble coming out as gay to my parents", "I just got my GCSE results" etc. which would now fit in the "What's making you sad/happy right now" threads respectively. Of course, people can still create those threads regardless, but from what we've seen in comparison to those threads not existing, people do not seem inclined to do so and it can certainly create the impression of a lack of activity when there are only a handful of active threads.
Said it better than I ever could.
Quote from: Shaymin on August 26, 2014, 21:08
feelings... aren't rly a game? and taking those topics and shoving them in forum games would again reduce the activity in random randomness?? i dont rly see what the point in moving them is when they are pretty much fine where they are?
Neither is "What are you listening to?" but it's in there anyway. Forum Games is generally a spam-lite type of forum, filled with posts that could be posted in massively on a very regular interval. That's my interpretation of it.
Now of course your argument only applies to "What is making you happy/sad right now?" type threads. What about "What are you doing right now?" "What's confusing you right now?" These threads tend to have a huge overlap, and the risk of making them merged and incredibly general means that the thread gets
too broad. Ultimately, threads that are too broad are one of the issues that is sort of coming up.
Quoteperhaps some of the older features should be brought back? i remember pokemon big brother (didn't take much interest in it, but hey i was just boring back then lmao), and there were other things that... i don't remember but i know there were other things.
There was quiz night on Sundays. A 2-3 person committee to get this going and thinking up obscure quiz questions and rules are good. Changing things up weekly is not a bad idea either.
Quoteif we all just try and make threads that promote healthy discussion without going into debating or whatever it'd be better.
And I love this idea. I'm going to make a separate thread about it.
I really like the way this thread is going; healthy and active discussion, good ideas, and people not being afraid to voice out their opinions. I can understand why you'd want to keep those threads I keep mentioning in Random Randomness, but I don't like them because I feel a lot of threads that you can make ultimately end up with posts in there. Things are more likely to be drowned out that way, and not only that but that thread gets so cluttered it's hard to actually talk to people there. I'd almost encourage people post in those threads less and make more threads about what they'd post about. It almost gives the illusion of greater activity, and I know when I'm perusing forums if I only see 3-4 threads at the top and the next highest one hasn't had a new post in a week I end up getting the impression the thread is inactive.
There are a couple things I have in mind;
locking them for a week and seeing if activity shifts towards new threads as opposed to new posts possibly? This is really risky though, and I understand exactly what Joeno is getting at with this.
Moving them to forum games - that just gives a new outlet for the issue I'm getting at and isn't a real solution.
Possibly a board called the "Ranting Zone", where there'd be no post count but someone can make their own thread and basically vent (in a civilized way - no cursing things out of course, no airing dirty forum laundry in public, etc; the latter has not been an issue since late 2009/2010 though). It gives people a way to talk about their lives, but it promotes activity of some sort and it clears up Random Randomness.
Also while I'm here, on the idea of the "illusion of activity." Could it be possible we separate boards by generation? We'd have one board for Generations I and II, then another for Generation III, one for Generation IV and V, then the last would be General VI. Since the new games are coming out, we could have a separate board for that. Something like that. I'll look up numbers and see if it's more viable to have a Generation I-III board, General IV-V board, General VI, and then a board for spinoffs (Orre series), then have Mystery Dungeon be its own separate thing because Mystery Dungeon is a huge series all on its own. Just spitballing, I'd love to get some refinement in organization. Many of these boards aren't very active and having more-encompassing boards seems like a good idea to me just because an outlet for more threads seems to seem more active, and the illusion of activity could ultimately bring more people in and have them think "oh it's an active forum."
I also think Sports could be a subforum of Entertainment and not Random Randomness but I'm not sure. I think a lot of those Sports discussions focus on media to begin with.
I hope someone asks me to clarify what I mean because it makes sense in my head, but I kinda rambled off.
Also I talked about those threads where someone basically has a biweekly column or a group of writers has a set thing to write every so often. I'll actually make a separate thread outlining my ideas for that, and then see who's willing to take what on, or what is already out there that we can start the list off with.
Quote from: Sappy on August 26, 2014, 23:58
While it may take a lot of initial work setting up
Way too much, we're talking complete rewrite here. See the earlier point about me just not having time for that - this would take me weeks at my currently available site time, and I don't think I could get the support for it from the other people involved with the feature
I may not have much part in this as it is, but I am willing to help out with more Competitive aspects of the site, mainly Team Building of course.
I'd also be up for running a couple of tournaments (and I'm sure others would), including Random Battles / Ubers / RU, but we'll have to see who takes interest in it.
More importantly, keeping the current league up and running will be beneficial to activity.
So in the interest of doing something with Those Topics, as there's the feeling something needs to be done, but I don't feel removing them entirely is the right course. So...
The three line "How ya doing" topicQuote
Feeling happy? Sad? Annoyed? Need to get something off your chest?
If it's something small that you just want to share, no need for a discussion, no need for (many) further replies, go ahead and post it here.
Three sentences or less though. If you can't summarize it in three sentences or less, you probably want to create a topic instead. At that point, there's probably something worth talking about in a proper topic. Don't worry - we have more than enough space left for the forums that it won't get in the way.
If you want to reply with more than a few words, that's also the point to make a topic about it. We can split posts off this topic if we have to.
I like that idea so far but I'd like to hear others' opinion on it.
Quote from: Spriter on August 27, 2014, 16:58
I may not have much part in this as it is, but I am willing to help out with more Competitive aspects of the site, mainly Team Building of course.
I'd also be up for running a couple of tournaments (and I'm sure others would), including Random Battles / Ubers / RU, but we'll have to see who takes interest in it.
More importantly, keeping the current league up and running will be beneficial to activity.
I would take some interest and I'd love to help setup. I have a few wrinkles to add because I don't like single elimination type things.
im down with some tourneys, theyre always fun :D
Well, group stages and then a knockout round in a tourney sounds like it could be great fun, and then there would need to be some form of prize possibly as a reward for victory?
Richard is now the Tournament equivalent of Germany in the world cup
Yes, I agree that Joeno's thread idea is a good one :) I'd be fine with that.
I like the idea of a banner for victory. I'm not trying to spend that much money anymore and w/ shipping costs it's even worse otherwise I'd advocate for actual tangible prizes.
I like all of these ideas, as long as they boost activity. Me against Rich will be the WC equivalent onf Brazil vs. Germany.
I'd be more than happy to clone things from my list (http://tinyurl.com/ocqswa6) as prizes for tournaments! I would even be okay with hosting weekly tournaments with prizes that match a specific gimmick for the tournament (I.E.: shiny competitive Eevee for an Eeveelution only tournament, or even anything from my list for a Random Battle tournament). If there's actual interest in this, I really wouldn't mind hosting tournaments weekly. I obviously wouldn't be taking part in them, given I'm the one doing the prizes, and wouldn't want to win my own prize.
What do you guys think? Would you be interested in this? What about long-term, do you think it's something that could stick around?
Quote from: ShinyBlaziken2000 on August 28, 2014, 21:50
I like all of these ideas, as long as they boost activity. Me against Rich will be the WC equivalent onf Brazil vs. Germany.
Whereas mine is America vs Germany
with Rich against Blaze it'll be more like San Marino v Germany
Weekly tournaments sound great as well, to be honest. I was thinking one big one would be a fun idea, but weekly tournaments sound less messy to put together.
Yeah, by prize I meant a competitive bred Pokémon or something. Maybe a whole team for the winner of a big tournament like I mentioned above?
I'd be fine with that. I don't like the idea of weekly tournaments because it's too much commitment and for now it's hard to get everyone online at around the same time. I'd say keep the rounds weekly or twice-a-week (what's the word for this? It's not biweekly is it?) and go for larger tournaments. It's not hard to do, I know, but if two people can't get their match done in 3-4 days that gives me the indication they shouldn't have signed up for a tournament.
I'd still like to talk to you on IRC sometime, my timezone is weird (GMT -8 these days) about organization.
Quote from: Spriter on August 29, 2014, 15:28
with Rich against Blaze it'll be more like San Marino v Germany
That reminds me, I have a death march to go on.
Anyways, I'm willing to pitch in any way I can, I could help host or even compete in tournaments, provided they're on showdown.
Quote from: Joeno on August 27, 2014, 08:00
Way too much, we're talking complete rewrite here. See the earlier point about me just not having time for that - this would take me weeks at my currently available site time, and I don't think I could get the support for it from the other people involved with the feature
Fair enough, but the Name Rating service is still slow and it's our best feature. How about appointing more Name Raters for Sinnoh, Unova and Kalos? Obviously they'll have to keep up with the same "IHATEEVERYTHIN" style, but more people working on it would definitely improve the system.
While the forum doesn't need more moderators the Name Rater definitely needs more raters.
Also I like the change in Random Randomness where the topics were locked. Great job :)