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The Torres incident goes down to personal opinion, but I believed he was fouled. Evans caught him, the speed they were both going at would've caused such. Torres could've chosen to stay on his feet, which you have this problem with, but this goes both ways and I can think of plenty of times where you have defended your own players for going down under minimal contact because it was a foul, such as Rooney's penalty against Almunia a few years ago. Even more brilliant is how the other side of the coin, Ivanovic's sending off was under minimal contact and again, Young could've easily chosen to go clean through on goal but chose not to, got the man sent off.
It's this huge issue of inconsistent that I absolutely cannot stand because it always
Yet, your lot got the rub of the green there and in both matches, just when you were starting to find the match swinging out of your favour, two inconsistencies occur in two of your hardest away matches and all of a sudden, you end up with six points and very questionable decisions.
The only way you can really change this is to enforce 'after-match' punishments or to go down video technology route, punishing those who have blatantly dived to win a foul and not owned up to it afterwards.
Could you see the FA coming out and fining Ashley Young for diving against Aston Villa? Against QPR? Against Chelsea?
Oh, this is what makes football such an interesting game to talk about (or so I keep convincing myself, I'm sure it's so mundane to others) because nobody will ever share the exact opinions and that there will always be something to debate. Like I say, I can see why Torres was booked for diving, but I do not agree with it because of consistency's sake because I believe what Torres was sent off for Young was guilty of just prior to it.
The point that I'm making in regards to Rooney is very valid here, actually, because your point was about Torres going down not being caused by the contact from Evans (debateable in itself) which thus equates to being a dive and thus, a bookable offence. But, in the video shown, Rooney was going to the ground regardless and went for the penalty because of the ball being sent out of control, so do you punish him for that? After all, whether inevitable or not, he's gone down before any contact has been made full stop, which in my eyes is the same as doing what Torres has done; feigned an increased amount of contact to win a foul. Rooney knew what he was doing. But, of course, this is meaningless and pointless because at the end of the day, it happened what.. three years ago..? (I'm not one to hold a grudge.. honest..) and you'll never see the point where they punish blatant diving because it's hard to actually pinpoint whether the player definitely dived, otherwise you'll find instances where the player jumps to avoid collision but loses balance (for example); do we take that as a foul or not, and if not, why can everybody not fly in with the idea of preventing the opposition getting past..?
The problem is that because the game has grown so much and has become so pressured, so demanding and so fast, there will always be that element of players pushing their luck as much as they can to get that upper hand. But because it's fast as well, if I was running at full sprint I'd be far more inclined to get out of the way than actually be fouled as we all know what can happen in a split second (was it Marc Wilson who broke his fibula this weekend?) such as Eduardo and Ramsey, which makes it harder to determine intent; was the player avoiding contact, but was fouled, or was the player avoiding contact to win a foul?
... but my point has always (and will always) been that you seem to get far more decisions go your way than any other team, including Chelsea. Always have done. There is a conspiracy mate, you perhaps just don't see it when it's going in your favour as the rest of the world looks on you with anger as you seemingly appear above it. In regards to Clattenburg, such as;"Last season, The bitters romped to a 6-1 win at Old Trafford, inflicting on their rivals their biggest embarrassment under Ferguson. The referee on that day was Mark Clattenburg. He sent Johnny Evans off in the second half for a clear professional foul. It seems that the FA, for whatever reason, doesn’t want Clattenburg to referee Man United games anymore. Some of us more paranoid folk may just wonder who’s behind that decision. There have been 34 Man United league games since that day. The number of times Clattenburg has refereed them? Zero. Not a single one."
Let us not approach Howard Webb though for this big myth about him liking your lot more than the next person.. oh can we please?"Webb’s history in Man United games are well known and documented. All I have to say on the matter is that more than 18% of the penalties he’s awarded in his ENTIRE premier league refereeing career have gone to Manchester United. Over a 9 year period, that’s a huge percentage."
From last season alone, you've the two infamous Ashley Young dives, the clear-cut penalty Fulham were turned away in your 1-0 defeat of them in the dying minutes (Murphy being fouled by Carrick was it?) along with a number of questionable decisions in I think.. eight matches was it where you went eight points clear at the top (I'm working off the top of my head here, excuse me). This season already you've got Welback against Wigan, Evans against Liverpool, the Chelsea match, where these inconsistences all work to your advantage.
Although, I've admittingly always had some form of bias since that game against Middlesbrough where somebody awarded a penalty against you, at Old Trafford, which is a crime punishable only by death really, and your players surrounded the referee and chased them halfway across the pitch. Since then I've probably noticed these incidents more, especially since we had a perfectly good goal disallowed and a clear penalty (and sending off appeal) turned down in the dying minutes of a 1-1 draw against you in 2001.
.. I really aren't one to hold a grudge am I?
My argument always has been that I suspect you get more decisions go your way because of Ferguson, but you get too many acts of karma for outright bribery; I think it's intimidation a lot of the time where, in the heat of the moment, you get the rub of the green. I know you'll admit when Ferguson is being out of order though, such as when he accused the five minutes added time against us as being an insult to the game (when it was worked out something like 4 minutes and 47 seconds was the amount of time to be added), or when he accused the amount of time against Tottenham the other week as "not being enough to win the match", completely disregarding the other ninety bloody minutes. Then again, cough cough Owen against The bitters cough cough, I suppose it can work sometimes...
The only one of your examples I can actually dispute is "2008: Michael Carrick penalised for a freak handball in the area, hands by his side, even Match of the Day acknowledged it was a ridiculous decision, giving Chelsea a late penalty. Chelsea 2 Man Utd 1.", I was always under the impression the change to "ball to hand" came into play then
And against you... you defended like heroes that day and got the rub of the screen (I think we missed 2 sitters that day). On the other side of the coin that Snodgrass free kick that hit the bar could easily have gone in. Sometimes you just have to hold your hands up and admit the other team were better than you that day and deserved the win. Like you did that day.
(was it Bowyer and Dyer for Newcastle many years back?)
Also worth remembering as probably the most attacking team of all time in the Premier League
So what excuses will it be from Fergie tonight?
Scott Wootton's Wikipedia page is becoming hilarious."October 31st , Scott Wootton played his last game in Manchester United Shirt""On October 31, 2012 Wootton was sold to Liverpool."
I wonder if after all that, Fergie will still buy another striker in January.