Author Topic: New Double Battle Strategy?  (Read 1017 times)

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Offline OHKOMaster

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New Double Battle Strategy?
« on: October 29, 2012, 18:35 »
Here's the strategy:

Exeggutor @Leftovers
Ability: Chlorophyll
Calm (+Sp.Def, -Atk) +Sp.Atk +Def +Sp.Def -Atk -HP
0/0/128/252/128/0
Solarbeam
Psychic
Shadow Ball
HP Ice

Infernape @White Herb
Ability: Blaze
Bashful (NC) +Sp.Atk +Atk +Spd -Def -Sp.Def
0/170/0/169/0/169
Sunny Day
Overheat
Close Combat
Earthquake

Infernape leads with Sunny Day, making Exeggutor a monster. In addition these two can cover for each other. Solarbeam kills Water-, Rock-, and Ground-types, Shadow Ball (sometimes) kills Psychic-types, and Infernape can finish the off the ones it doesn't. HP Ice destroys Flying-types, and Psychic is just a good STAB move. Overheat incinerates Bugs and melts Metagross and Abomasnow, Close Combat destroys Tyranitar and other Dark-types, and Earthquake kills Fire-types. Also, Shadow Ball crushes Ghosts.

So, what do you think?

Offline f3raligatr

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2012, 19:07 »
Hmm..

On paper it's a sound strategy, simple yet profound and somewhat efficient, but there's problems with it that need to be sorted. The first thing is that a neutral nature is never, ever a wise option because there's always something that needs a boost. In a game where power is now everything, your best options are to have natures that boost your offences, so in which case you'd be far better off having a Modest nature on Exeggutor, and perhaps a Naive or Hasty nature on Infernape. The EVs are split wastefully as well, you don't want to simply make it all even, every EV has to go somewhere to do something; there's no point wasting EVs if it doesn't cause you to outspeed anything, cause you to score OHKO/2HKOs are opposed to 2HKO/3HKOs or survive particular attacks. In this case, you've put EVs in your defences without real meaning, they just don't go towards anything in particular.

The general rule of thumb is that before adding into any of the defences, always add into your HP first as that covers both defences, not just the one. So, for your Exeggutor, I'd sling 252 EVs into both HP and Special Attack with the leftover 6 into Speed, as you don't really need much Speed if you're going for the Chlorophyll strategy. As for Infernape, I can understand the logic behind Overheat and White Herb, but it seems like a waste to have one shot at such a powerful Fire attack (Intimidate is very popular in doubles which negates White Herb) so I'd consider Flamethrower over Overheat. Close Combat is fine, perhaps Stone Edge or Rock Slide in the final slot (you don't want Earthquake as it will hit your Exeggutor.

Exeggutor looks fine, I'd consider Protect over Shadow Ball though so that you remain unharmed during your first turn before outspeeding everything.

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Offline Kyriakou

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2012, 19:12 »
Is this for the battle subway, VGC or just an idea of a combination that could work?

Offline Richard and Blaziken

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2012, 20:56 »
Drought Ninetales is better than Infernape for what you're doing.



Offline f3raligatr

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2012, 21:28 »
Drought Ninetales is better than Infernape for what you're doing.

Indeed, although I spot a bit of resentment towards Infernape there somehow..

But yes, Ninetales does work better for the simple reason that with Drought it doesn't need a turn of set-up, it works immediately. Heat Wave is a good option too as it hits both opponents in double matches.

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Offline Richard and Blaziken

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2012, 03:15 »
Indeed, although I spot a bit of resentment towards Infernape there somehow..

But of course, I will always recommend people use anything that isn't the worst Pokemon ever. :v



Offline OHKOMaster

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2012, 18:37 »
I know that I don't need to "waste" a turn and use Sunny Day if I use Drought Ninetales, but the lack of move variety is repulsive. Ninetales can't learn a single-turn Ground move other than HP Ground, and that's not exactly the best one available. I think I would prefer Speed Boost Blaziken over Drought Ninetales.

Blaziken @White Herb
Ability: Speed Boost (which makes him faster than any Ninetales after 2 turns)
Naive (+Spd, -Sp.Def) +Atk +Sp.Atk +Spd -Def -Sp.Def
HP/Atk/Def/Sp.Atk/Sp.Def/Spd just in case anyone gets/got confused
0/252/0/252/
Sunny Day
Overheat
Superpower
Earthquake

@Renzokuken: I actually considered that Earthquake would hit Exeggutor, but I left it because he's resistant to it anyway, and I don't think Protect would be necessary since Blaziken is far faster than Exeggutor and he would therefore get the speed boost on the same turn.

@Kyriakou: It's just an idea for a strategy that could work.

@Richard and Blaziken: You gotta be with me on my new strategy since it includes Blaziken, right?

 

Offline f3raligatr

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2012, 19:23 »
In Doubles, the absolute last thing you want to be doing is harming your own partner. You can try it, but in addition to the power being reduced (I'm sure it's 75% of it's original power to each Pokémon, so you hit all Pokémon with an individual power of 75, therefore not a great deal better than Hidden Power with the tax of only hitting one Pokémon at the gain of protecting your partner and being able to use anything), you'll find that you'll do yourself more harm than good with it in my opinion.

Exeggutor is a fantastic Pokémon, utterly fantastic, don't just take my word for it as the VGC World Finalist (iirc) used one to good measure. Oh, and the UK Champion too, but we don't like to inflate his ego any greater than it already is (it's rivaling mine now ;o). It just seems a waste that you're going to use a turn to set it up, when you'd be better off hitting straight from the off with powerful Solarbeams. Using a Pokémon not named Whimiscott to set it up for you just doesn't guarantee that you'll get a chance to move as U-Turn is a relatively common move and it targets Exeggutor's weak spot, not to mention any Hail teams flying around with their bloody horrible 100% accurate Blizzards. Having said that, there is a saving grace in that you'll be able to judge the weather and act accordingly without switching out, but.. it's so circumstational that I don't think it'll work I'm afraid.

Ninetales is your best bet alongside Exeggutor I'm afraid to say, although if you want to use Blaziken then please consider Protect over Earthquake (and.. HJK probably isn't your best bet actually, Protect is horribly common in Doubles, probably Sky Uppercut which doesn't limit you to one-time-use) and Protect on Exeggutor too. That way, you can if need be double Protect on your first turn, allowing you to ensure you're faster, which allows you to get Sunny Day up and you can then begin your sweep. But.. all your opponent has to have is a Scarfed Pokémon (again, still common) capable of taking out either of Blaziken or Exeggutor, and your strategy might as well not even be there.

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Offline Richard and Blaziken

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2012, 02:31 »
In what format are you battling in which there are only 2 Pokemon participating? Blaziken would be great in Sun, but you have a whole team to work with, or at least, 4 Pokemon in VGC format, so why not Ninetales providing Sun and having good Fire types.

Also, I'm not sure you know what natures do, since you have + a bunch of things that Naive doesn't boost. Anyway, utilizing weather isn't a new strategy, and using Blaziken to setup weather is really not a good move. Ninetales can't do everything, but infinite sun is too important to pass up. I don't do doubles enough to post a moveset suggestion, but I think that as it is, this isn't a wonderful strategy, and can easily be stopped with a Choice Scarfer or another weather changer, especially Politoed.



Offline Kyriakou

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2012, 09:50 »
OHKOMaster, could I suggest you make at least a team of 4 with a given rule-set so that we can really see the overall strategy. What you're doing with these 2 Pokémon is certainly viable with the right support behind it, which is something you don't have at the moment. For example, in VGC12 my Ninetales and Exeggutor combination wasn't very good without things like Scizor and Machamp there to take hits and deal with the omnipresent Tyranitar. I'm not at this point saying the idea is good or bad, it just needs more before you can really start to analyse it well.

@Rich: I would like to point out that Ninetales is not the be all and end all of any sun team, it just quite convenient. The main trouble is winning weather wars with it, given that both TTar and Politoed can damage it for super-effective. It needs quite a bit of team support to work effectively making it a difficult choice. That said, used right it's a monster, and all should fear it's mighty blaze! xD

Offline Richard and Blaziken

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2012, 11:07 »
Never said it was, I said it's better than anything else in OU at setup up sunlight, and certainly better as a main Sunlight Pokemon than Blaziken, who should be focusing on offense.



Offline MonsterMon64

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Re: New Double Battle Strategy?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2012, 15:43 »
If you're that bent on using Sunny Day over Drought abuse, you could always try something with Prankster. I wouldn't be able to tell you which is a viable candidate, though; most Pranksters who can learn Sunny Day are either not that good or have better things to do.

Also, I understand it's just an idea, but it would definitely help if you had other Pokemon in mind for support. You can't expect to win with only two Pokemon, right? =P I mean, unless you're playing two-on-two doubles somehow.

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