Author Topic: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life  (Read 7951 times)

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Offline Turner

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2014, 23:17 »
Because many Japanese themselves are actually highly against marriage in Japan and the Japanese family registry system (戸籍 (koseki)) it entials. The majority of the LGBT community in Japan do not want the right to marriage either.

Most Western Journalists have a very skewed idea of homosexuality in Japan and believe that they are some way behind the west. This is not true at all. Read this if you want good background info rather than western journalists who rely upon hearsay and stereotypes: http://gimmeaqueereye.org/entry/173

Offline Hahex and Oshawott

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2014, 23:56 »
In the begining, I figured that Nintendo didn't want to raise a big fuss over a sim game and just wanted to go with a very conservative approach to the game. Most likely, they didn't want to potentially offend anyone homophobic, because usually they raise the biggest fuss right?

But now that I think about it, I can't help but feel that the LGBT movement has reached some sort of critical mass where both sides of the argument for and against homosexuality seem to be just as loud. The fact that Nintendo has issued an apology and has actually bothered to adress this part of the community is certainly a right step in the direction for equality in sexuality.

Even from a profit point of view, a game from a typically familly friendly company shipping with same sex marriage is bound to create attention and controversy. I feel that Nintendo would be even better off if the game; surely the game would practically advertise itself through controversy, à la GTA (although maybe that's not a totally apt comparison)? 

Still, I can see that Nintendo of America/Europe can't really do too much about a Japanese game. It seems that when it came out here, it was already finished and released in Japan so I can understand why they couldn't patch it immediately.
discounting the usual ITS A SIN reasons, of course

p.s. i only brought up christianity since its the oft cited reason why we hate gays in the west, not sure why you've commented on japanese christians being uptight?
As for the source of homophobia in the Bible, it seems that at the time the Bible was compiled/written (or even as far back as the Torah), homosexuality was always linked with rape and violence in many instances. I can't help but feel that this representation has caused all homosexuality to be condemmed by the church.
Then the other source comes from the Catholic Natural Law form of ethics, which is another thing entirely. I'd like to go in more detail but maybe another time.

Offline Turner

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2014, 00:46 »
The whole thing is overblown on both sides. Complaining about Nintendo not having gay marriage in their game is an unnecessary attack on Nintendo, there is literally no difference in complaining about it in Tomodachi Life compared to complaining about it in any other game that features marriage (The Sims, Harvest Moon, FE:A). People only choose to complain because they have this false idea that Japan falls behind the west in acceptance of homosexuals when nothing could be further from the truth (as mentioned above).

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In the begining, I figured that Nintendo didn't want to raise a big fuss over a sim game and just wanted to go with a very conservative approach to the game. Most likely, they didn't want to potentially offend anyone homophobic, because usually they raise the biggest fuss right?

In the beginning, I doubt they really gave a crap either way. Tomodachi Life is not some kind of serious life simulator, it's just a surreal, comedic extension of Mii plaza that borrows heavily from Animal Crossing. Marriage is not as integral to the game as people seem to think, so they did not over-complicate the mechanics behind it; that's really as far as this goes. I don't know why people seem to think they are having their civil rights taken away from them or something.

Given how Nintendo is doing financially I have no idea why minority groups (or people who think it is their job to speak for them) would want to attack the most undoubtedly inclusive games company of the big 3 and give more reasons for the competitors to tear them down and throw mud at them, it's almost as though they WANT to be left with a market dominated by just Sony and Microsoft.

Offline Hahex and Oshawott

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2014, 02:39 »
The article you linked definately raises one valid possibility; that of people wanting to believe that their movement has spread over to Japan to free them from their conservative ways. At the same time, I don't think that it's solely a Japanese thing. I think that if any of the major companies released some sort of comedic life sim without same-sex marriage but still straight marriage then people will still raise the same big fuss over it.

Offline Turner

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2014, 03:08 »
The article you linked definately raises one valid possibility; that of people wanting to believe that their movement has spread over to Japan to free them from their conservative ways. At the same time, I don't think that it's solely a Japanese thing. I think that if any of the major companies released some sort of comedic life sim without same-sex marriage but still straight marriage then people will still raise the same big fuss over it.

The article shows a lot more than that, much of which I think you may be conveniently ignoring.

I didn't see the same fuss being made over any of the Harvest Moon games of which marriage is a far more integral part of the game's mechanics. Was an apology ever forced out of Nintendo for those games? How about all of the other games from Nintendo which only allow players to take the 'straight route'? This ultimately comes down to a select, audible group of fans who had previously received the game with open arms suddenly demanding that all their wishes are met under the guise of the abuse of equal rights. It's a lot of fuss over nothing that has only served to fuel the media circus and given PR ammo other games developers and publishers with outright homophobic rhetoric. If this was an attempt to make the world a better place then the mission has well and truly failed.

Offline Shaymin

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2014, 13:30 »
westerners like pushing their western views on japan even though their views on lgtba+ etc, aren't the same as ours. neither is their view of social justice don't get me started on westernised views of certain japanese characteres. gay marriage still isn't legal everywhere anyway, and if they included it there would be hundreds of bible bashers screaming about how nintendo is spreading the "homosexual agenda" and how they won't buy their kids the next cool nintendo game.

they might include it in an optional update later on, but again, western players forget japan is a very different place to where we live.




Offline Hahex and Oshawott

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2014, 13:51 »
gay marriage still isn't legal everywhere anyway, and if they included it there would be hundreds of bible bashers screaming about how nintendo is spreading the "homosexual agenda" and how they won't buy their kids the next cool nintendo game.
You mean like what happened with Pokemon? Maybe there's more people against gays than there are against demon pokemon but ultimately, it seems similar enough in principle. 

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2014, 14:01 »
You mean like what happened with Pokemon? Maybe there's more people against gays than there are against demon pokemon but ultimately, it seems similar enough in principle. 
unfortunately, the homophobic side is just as loud as the lgtba+ side, but both sides will demonise anything they don't like, so it's just a big pile of steaming cow leavings. like i said, maybe an optional patch will come out where you don't HAVE to download it that will put gay marriage in. besides it's a really weird game as it is anyway and you don't have to get married? idk




Offline Turner

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2014, 16:02 »
I think people also mistake Nintendo's role in all of this. These people are fans of Nintendo's videogames, they began playing games and consoles made by Nintendo because they liked them. Nintendo has absolutely no obligation to meet their standards whatsoever. Videogames are still a creative work and it is entirely the discretion of the creator as to what is or is not included.

Would these people complain at and cause an international incident press statement over their favorite musician/band for not including enough songs about same-sex relationships or for not using enough gender neutral pronouns in their songs? I highly doubt it. Nintendo does not owe you any particular game mechanic.


« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 18:31 by Turner »

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2014, 21:45 »
I think people also mistake Nintendo's role in all of this. These people are fans of Nintendo's videogames, they began playing games and consoles made by Nintendo because they liked them. Nintendo has absolutely no obligation to meet their standards whatsoever. Videogames are still a creative work and it is entirely the discretion of the creator as to what is or is not included.

Would these people complain at and cause an international incident press statement over their favorite musician/band for not including enough songs about same-sex relationships or for not using enough gender neutral pronouns in their songs? I highly doubt it. Nintendo does not owe you any particular game mechanic.
But if said band made a song that included marriage and said something about how it could only between a man and a woman, that would be controversial, no?

Offline SaRo|Rapidash

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2014, 21:59 »

Would these people complain at and cause an international incident press statement over their favorite musician/band for not including enough songs about same-sex relationships or for not using enough gender neutral pronouns in their songs? I highly doubt it. Nintendo does not owe you any particular game mechanic.

Most lyrics to love songs are based off of the writers experiences, so why would a straight singer be writing about that anyway? Like... They're hardly going to be able to write about their experiences, are they?

I'm not saying Nintendo was wrong in excluding it - they've just done the norm and have been slandered for it for some reason - but an apology doesn't hurt anyone so there's no reason for them not to?

unfortunately, the homophobic side is just as loud as the lgtba+ side

Louder, from what I've seen/heard, in most cases. They've got more weight, with entire countries at the threat of banning Nintendo, possibly even as a company, from their country.
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Offline Delicious_Scout

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2014, 22:06 »
I still find surprising people is discussing this theme with such intensity.

I just realised while playing "Animal Crossing: New Leaf" that one can wear any clothes the player wants. Any. This means men can wear dresses and skirts (just make sure the wind is not strong). This is an example of double standards, as I can grasp; another example is that Ancient Greeks did consider homosexuality as the superior sexuality, but found anal intercourses degrading.

Having said that, I will no longer discuss about whether this decision has been erroneous or not, unless there is a flagrant stupidity  in these replies.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2014, 22:18 by Delicious_Scout »
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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2014, 22:13 »
I think it's just been made a big hash of when it really shouldn't have been tbh.

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2014, 22:34 »
But if said band made a song that included marriage and said something about how it could only between a man and a woman, that would be controversial, no?

But that isn't at all what Nintendo are saying and you're completely misunderstanding the difference between someone talking about reality and an artistic work of fiction.

First of all, Tomodachi Life takes place in a surreal fantasy world - it is a work of fiction just as every videogame is, it does not take place in the real world. It does not claim to be a representation of real life or a representation of how real life should be, quite the opposite in fact. For all we know, the archipelago in which the numerous islands of Tomodachi Life reside may all collectively be governed by a law which does not permit same-sex marriage so it wouldn't make any sense for it to be an option

Secondly, we're talking about features here. Unless you personally believe that the right to same-sex marriage is more important than the right to identify as a certain gender, we would then be in a position where gender identity also has to be coded into the game. But then what about ableism? Isn't it offensive that this horrific Tomodachi Island game just assumes I'm not paraplegic and wheelchair bound? This sounds ableist to me and I want a Wheelchair also included in the game, otherwise it's not like real life.

Demanding features to meet the expectations of minorities is a slippery slope because you can split hairs to the nth degree. Of course it would be nice if we could have them; It would be nice if GameFreak brought back the VS seeker, but that doesn't mean that A) They have a personal responsibility to meet my individual expectations and B) It also doesn't mean that I don't want any more Pokemon games until they can give me that feature.

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Re: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2014, 22:39 »
Secondly, we're talking about features here. Unless you personally believe that the right to same-sex marriage is more important than the right to identify as a certain gender, we would then be in a position where gender identity also has to be coded into the game.

Surely if someone was biologically male but chose to be female identity, they'd just select female and vice versa? I'd argue that including a gender identity would almost be transphobic as it's implying they're not just a regular whatever gender they identify as, if you get what I mean?
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