Author Topic: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon  (Read 336 times)

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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2017, 14:07 »
^Tbf, im a huge defender of recent gens, and even i think gen 5 sucked overall. Like you said, a lot of the pokemon were over designed, to the point that things like garbodor just look really gross. Gen 6 was really good (hawlucha and greninja being particular faves), although it maybe had a couple of missteps. Gen 7 seemed like a return to simplistic designs, but there werent many that really stood out for me. The alola forms, on the other hand, were absolutely wonderful. I only wished there had been a few that werent based on gen 1 pokemon.

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2017, 18:04 »
I think people like gen 1 because it had the most simplistic designs. Not knocking any of these, but to see what I mean compare Golem to Gigalith, Golbat to Swoobat, Machamp to Conkeldurr, Gengar to Chandelure (I chose gen I v V because V is the one that most obviously tried to draw parallels to gen I) - in each case you notice the Kanto one is more simplistic, generally being one main colour, perhaps with an accent colour, and just clean I guess? The Unova designs are a lot busier, generally with 2-3 colours, and in the case of Conkeldurr adding extra non-pokemon bits to it. Neither style is better than the other, at least not objectively, it comes purely down to preference. I mean, even comparing Garbodor and Muk, Garbodor is kind of overdesigned and Muk is probably underdesigned.
??????????? gen 1 was simple bc game boys didn't have a lot of computing power or memory so they had to keep designs simple? with the CP and memory of this generations handhelds they can afford to make pokemon look more complex. before you go saying "but animals all look simple!!", yes, you get birds like blackbirds that are a solid colour and different colour for the beak, but then look at the peacock - multi coloured and ungainly, with a huge ass tail.

i like new pokemon, i like """"overdesigned"""" pokemon cause they look unique.

also meet me in the pit garbodor is supposed to look gross, its a fricking pile of garbage



Offline The name master

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2017, 18:07 »
garbodor is supposed to look gross, its a fricking pile of garbage
Are you talking about it's stats or it's appearance or both?
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2017, 18:19 »
I think they mean that is literally a pile of actual garbage come to life.

I get that its meant to look gross, but I feel like theres a way of mixing grossness with coolness or creepiness or anything else thatd make me want to look at it and use it in battle.

Offline SapphireRobin|Omeganium

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2017, 19:13 »
??????????? gen 1 was simple bc game boys didn't have a lot of computing power or memory so they had to keep designs simple? with the CP and memory of this generations handhelds they can afford to make pokemon look more complex. before you go saying "but animals all look simple!!", yes, you get birds like blackbirds that are a solid colour and different colour for the beak, but then look at the peacock - multi coloured and ungainly, with a huge ass tail.

The reason why they're simple is kind of immaterial - they are and that's all that matters. I explicitly said in my post "neither style is better than the other" - I'm just stating why people disagree, because there is a huge design difference between the gens.

i like new pokemon, i like """"overdesigned"""" pokemon cause they look unique.

also meet me in the pit garbodor is supposed to look gross, its a fricking pile of garbage

That's exactly the point I was making - some people like the gen 5 style, because the complexity gives them more character (See: Male Unfezant). Also my point with Garbodor was just a comparison with Muk - both are the ones people point out as like "GEN V SUCKS BECAUSE GARBODOR" and then other people are like "YEAH BUT GEN 1 HAD MUK" - but even for a pile of sludge Muk is 'clean' I guess, whereas Garbodor is more rugged with random pink & blue splodges. Again, this just comes down to clean v characterful.

I think the whole anti-genwunner thing is that a lot of people who prefer gen 1 design have sort of the advantage of their favourite being the first gen so setting the definition of a pokemon, so they feel like they can say new ones "don't look like pokemon", and that makes people get very defensive (plus it's also something I think doesn't make much sense - a pokemon is whatever GF decides it is lmao)

(Just a note, I personally don't actually like gen 1 very much, at least not on the whole, I'm more in the "the designs are pretty bland" camp, I think gen 3 was the peak of design, but that might be nostalgia idk, gen 6 was very cool too, just a shame most the cool pokemon sucked in battles lmao)
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 00:00 »
The genwunners are victims of nostalgia. You're able to take a step back and analyze the old generation even though you're still going to be biased.

I'm not sure if you did start with Gen 1, because a lot of resentment towards later Pokemon is pretty much nostalgia. It's a tool that's more powerful than it should be.
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Offline SapphireRobin|Omeganium

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 09:20 »
Nostalgia is certainly a factor, but by no means the only one, I know plenty of genwunners who didn't even start playing till gen IV+. I do agree that in most cases nostalgia is at least a significant factor though, and that cases where people genuinely think the designs are better are probably in a minority (although I'd guess a fairly large minority).

I don't know if nostalgia is as responsible for the dislike of new Pokemon though - definitely a factor for some people but I think it's more just that the designs are very different. I guess some of it could even be that many gen 1 Pokémon are in /every game/ (Alakazam, Gengar, Golem, Golbat, Pikachu etc), and in my experience at least, those are people's favourites from that gen, so it's like some sort of positive reinforcement. The last point I'm making is a bit of overlap with nostalgia, but the first gen also only had 150 Pokémon - this made each individual Pokémon more memorable. Now there's upward of 800, and honestly I know I certainly find a lot of new ones forgettable. It's not even that I don't like them, but with 800+ Pokémon it's easy to forget them, and you tend to forget more recent ones just because you've had less exposure to them, which can make people think "oh, they're forgettable so obviously bad".

I didn't start with gen 1, it was actually 3 which is why I noted my preference of gen 3 could be biased on nostalgia, but tbh I think it's more that gen 3 covered a lot more of my favourite animals, and that I tend to forget other favourites like Lanturn aren't gen 3 >_>
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Offline Captain Jigglypuff

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 13:58 »
I think Gen 1 was the weakest in terms of gameplay because it introduced the world to the franchise. The graphics are weird in battle and the games were glitch filled. But I still like it and have fond memories of it, especially the six months I thought kids were playing a game that had an oddly drawn duck which I then found out was supposed to be a human. On the original GB, the Trainer DID look like a duck!
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Offline Dialga47

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 14:23 »
An interesting twist
Rumor has it that Nintendo will be Remaking Diamond and Pearl. AWESOME!!!

Offline Lord Raven

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 20:21 »
Nostalgia is certainly a factor, but by no means the only one, I know plenty of genwunners who didn't even start playing till gen IV+. I do agree that in most cases nostalgia is at least a significant factor though, and that cases where people genuinely think the designs are better are probably in a minority (although I'd guess a fairly large minority).
Plenty is probably a huge minority. I'd be curious to talk to these people, not that I'm saying they don't exist but it's so weird.

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I don't know if nostalgia is as responsible for the dislike of new Pokemon though - definitely a factor for some people but I think it's more just that the designs are very different. I guess some of it could even be that many gen 1 Pokémon are in /every game/ (Alakazam, Gengar, Golem, Golbat, Pikachu etc), and in my experience at least, those are people's favourites from that gen, so it's like some sort of positive reinforcement. The last point I'm making is a bit of overlap with nostalgia, but the first gen also only had 150 Pokémon - this made each individual Pokémon more memorable. Now there's upward of 800, and honestly I know I certainly find a lot of new ones forgettable. It's not even that I don't like them, but with 800+ Pokémon it's easy to forget them, and you tend to forget more recent ones just because you've had less exposure to them, which can make people think "oh, they're forgettable so obviously bad".

That is nostalgia.

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I didn't start with gen 1, it was actually 3 which is why I noted my preference of gen 3 could be biased on nostalgia, but tbh I think it's more that gen 3 covered a lot more of my favourite animals, and that I tend to forget other favourites like Lanturn aren't gen 3 >_>

But also, nostalgia and bias. There's nothing wrong with it so long as you aren't rubbing it in.
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Offline The Hooded Trainer

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2017, 20:51 »
To simplify what i think sapphirerobin was saying, when you have two different things, people are going to prefer one over the other, and gen 1's designs are definitely different from a lot of the later ones. Sure, nostalgia is probably the main reason people prefer gen 1, but its likely that there are people who genuinely just prefer its sense of style.

Honestly though, im not even that big a fan of gen 1, but that might just be that ive seen all the pokemon so often that im just kind of bored of them.


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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2017, 17:20 »
Gen 1 would've been simple. As aforementioned, the GB couldn't hold much memory but also, it was the first generation, it was never going to be too complex as no precedent had been set yet. As we've gone further in the gens, there's now better technology and also more scope to design the mons.

Offline Lord Thistlewick Flanders

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2017, 17:46 »
A.G.A.B

all gens are beautiful


personally i really liked marenie/toxapex and mudsdale this time round (charjabug and friends also) as well as goth emo owl grass starter. i dont think theres such thing as a Bad Pokemon Generation really cos they could make a pokemon poo and a pokemon wee and all the pokemon could be arrows pointing in different directions and id still buy it. they even made the Useless Fish pokemon good this gen, at least we didn't get another Basculin.




also re the gen 1 discussion the hardcore gen 1 people are idiots (ive been around since gen I but i dont and wont defend it, i will not hear criticism of gen IV though) and i hate them

youll often find the gen I type people also unironically like TyanitarTube too and will also throw handfuls of cash at anything vaguely pokemon "nostalgia" related cos they're idiots. you know the sort who aggresively wear their pokemon themed stuff on their pokemon letsplay where they yell about encasing their dick in an authentic pokemon blue cartridge From The Day and its like, ok, yeah, i will wax nostalgic about Sega Mega Drive music nostalgia and autismically authentic YM2612 emulation till the cows come home but im not THIS bad

as for the rest of the gens....

gen II people you just can't trust cos they're weirdoes. who the hell actually likes gen II. gen II did have steelix and scizor and also the creepy unown radio channel tho which i rlly liked. they never developed on unown like ever.
gen III people are pretentious self-important melodramatics who took the pokemon mystery dungeon "you're the SPECIAL UNIQUE CHOSEN GIFTED ONE" thing a little too literally
gen IV people are annoying hyperactive screaming babies who throw tantrums when no-one pays attention to them for more than three seconds
gen V people are dubstep monster energy drink people who never shower and play COD all day
gen VI people are people who got into pokemon like yesterday and have one of those ugly folding bikes with an equally embarassing hipster bike bag and also a total nerds haircut
gen VII people (if they exist) are likely to be people whos only other videogame they ever played was Wii Sports and they also like Beyonce and Coca Cola
              

Offline The name master

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2017, 17:48 »
the GB couldn't hold much memory
If this was true, then couldn't they just use the snes? Those were still around at the time, weren't they? And they had better graphics and sound!
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Offline Captain Jigglypuff

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Re: My thoughts on the Pokemon of Sun/Moon
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2017, 18:27 »
If this was true, then couldn't they just use the snes? Those were still around at the time, weren't they? And they had better graphics and sound!

GF wanted a portable game that encouraged players to interact with each other. There is no way the trading system would have worked on the SNES. You couldn't hook anything else up to it even though there was a port. Mario Paint went into details how you could record stuff from the cartridge onto a VHS tape which was never possible. So trading with another person would not have worked at all.
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