Author Topic: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!  (Read 18489 times)

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Offline Dragonpika

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The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« on: December 05, 2008, 20:44 »
Welcome!
Here in Team Building you can give and receive ratings on Pokémon teams, further your battling prowess while helping others to do the same. There’s something for battlers of every level of experience; this is a community in which we help each other to succeed, whether your goal is to beat the Elite 4 or to become the best competitive battler on the internet. For the beginners, you can post a team and get help from our team builders. The more experienced of you may want to leave your own thoughts and suggestions on the teams of other people, and for those of you who really know your stuff, we generate a lot of debating in this board over tier placements and whatnot.

Read the first three posts of the topic before posting in this board. The second post is all about posting a team; the third post contains guidelines for rating other people's teams.

Quick Links:[Dex] [Site Section] [Standard Movesets] [Coverall Combos] [Natures] [EVs] [Archetypes] [Benchmark Speed Stats]

Tiers: [Ubers] [Overused] [Borderline] [Underused] [Neverused]

Calculators: [Metalkid’s IV Calculator] [Metalkid's Damage Calculator] [libelldra Forge's Damage Calculator] [Steinhauser's Offline Damage Calculator]


Confused about the different damage calculators? TCoZ has kindly written a brief guide to the differences between them:
Metalkid's damage calculator is by far the easiest to use, and requires no knowledge of base stats or similar to use, however the way the damage calculation is done makes it slightly incorrect, and certain abilities or moves aren't worked out properly (such as Technician). If you're only worried about a rough estimate, then use it, but if it says you'll OHKO or similar don't assume that it will.

libelldra Forge's damage calculator is the most complicated one to use, requiring information on the exact stat, not just the base stat and EVs/nature, which can be very annoying if you make a slight change like nature or base stat. However, if you have this information, it is the fastest to use, and shows information on OHKOs/2HKOs  in different situations (leftovers/stealth rocks). I do believe that there are slight errors at lower levels, but they are very minute and won't make a difference (unless you're interested in Little Cup).

Steinhauser's offline damage calculator is almost like a mix of both. It maintains the accuracy of libelldra Forge's damage calculator, while being easier to use. It also has the unique feature of allowing you to save the attacker's and the defender's information to use later. Provided you know the base stats, typing matchups and base power of the move, it is simple to use. This information can easily be found on PKMN.net's Dex. The only real problem is the fact you have to download it, and there is a chance that it might not work on your computer. However, if you are willing to download it and it works, it is easily the most useful of the three."
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 20:36 by Dragonpika »




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Offline Dragonpika

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2008, 20:47 »
POSTING A TEAM

So you’ve picked out your Pokémon, chosen their moves and now you want some ratings on them. Here are a few little checkpoints to consider before posting – note that if your team is for ingame purposes, these aren’t incredibly important, but you may want to consider them anyway to maximise your potential. If your team is to be used competitively, they are all key factors in your team’s success and will vastly improve your chances if you consider them.

  • Have you chosen a variety of types for your team? Having different types of Pokémon is essential to almost any team, because if they are all the same type they will have the same weaknesses, and that makes you vulnerable. For example, while a team containing Garchomp, Salamence and Dragonite all at once might seem appealing, all three of them have a 4x weakness to Ice – if your opponent has a Weavile, chances are they’re going to have a lot of fun tearing your team apart with Ice Punch.

  • Have you chosen a variety of roles for your Pokémon? A Pokémon doesn’t need to be offensive to be a danger to your opponent; status and non-damaging moves are every bit as important.  A team of 6 sweepers, while fun, takes real skill to pull off with the lack of support Pokémon; similarly, a team of 6 walls will probably not last long in today’s fast-paced metagame. The average team at the moment has 2 or 3 sweepers, and almost always contains a Rapid Spinner and something to lay down Stealth Rocks. Make sure that you dip into both sides of the physical / special spectrum, especially on your offence, to stop Skarmory or Blissey, each extremely tough walls in their respective defence type, raining on your parade. If you’re unsure about the different types of battler, look here.

  • Have you paid attention to natures? Natures increase or decrease one of your Pokémon’s stats by 10%, which could be the difference between a KO and your enemy surviving. Try to pick a nature that ups a stat your Pokémon uses, and reduces one that it doesn’t use or that isn’t important to it. Generally, neutral natures such as Quirky are a bad idea – sure, they don’t lower any of your Pokémon’s stats, but they don’t help it either. They are still preferable to a nature that lowers your Pokémon’s favoured stat though, for example a Garchomp with an attack-reducing nature. There is a guide to the different natures here.

  • Have you thought carefully about items? Your Pokémon’s item is a big factor in its success, and should be tailored to its role in the team. For example, many sweepers carry a Choice item or Life Orb, and tanks or walls often have Leftovers.

  • Are your movesets balanced, typewise? It’s almost always good to have an attack on your Pokémon’s moveset be the same type as the Pokémon – this will make the move 50% more powerful, as it will gain Same Type Attack Bonus [commonly referred to as STAB]. The exceptions are Poison and Steel, because very little is weak to them and a lot of things resist them. However, the rule of thumb is not have more than one attack of the same type on the same set, because you’re more likely to have trouble landing an effective hit on a foe. It’s far more advantageous to have two moves that cover each other’s problems. For a list of attacking types that compliment each other well, look here. The exception to the rule is in the case of attacks like Overheat and Draco Meteor, or Water Spout and Eruption. The first two lower your attacking stats, so you may want a same-type move to go with it – Choice Specs Salamence for example often runs Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor, because Dragon Pulse allows you to do reasonable damage, while Draco Meteor can be used for massive damage but will pretty much force you to switch after due to the Special Attack drop. Eruption and Water Spout rely on full HP to score big damage, so you may want another move of the same type for when your HP drops.

  • Are your movesets balanced, attackwise? Many sweepers become much more efficient if one of their moveslots is used for a stat-boosting move, rather than having all four used for offensive moves. Gyarados is so much more the monster after a Dragon Dance or two. Similarly, it is often advisable to have an offensive move even on your supporters, to prevent them being Taunted into oblivion.

  • Have you EV’d your Pokémon? EVing makes a huge difference to your Pokémon’s stats, and is explained here.

    A note on tiers: while, in the right hands, a Pokémon can be used in any tier, it is a good idea to be careful when choosing Pokémon from different tiers. If you have 5 Pokémon from Neverused and 1 from Standard, be aware that you will have to play in the Standard environment and the Neverused Pokémon are likely to struggle. It is better to have the majority of your team from the tier you intend to play in, with one or two from lower tiers.

    Also, contrary to popular belief, Borderline and Overused are in essence the same tier. Together they make up the Standard tier, and are only separated by usage, not power.

    For more advanced tips on building your team, look at our competitive battling section.

    Now then, actually posting your team. There is a standard layout for posting a Pokémon and its moveset, and it looks like this:

    Quote
    Pokémon @ Item
    Ability:
    EVs:
    IVs: this bit is optional, as only Shoddy players and serious competitive battlers worry about IVs
    Nature [+Stat, -Stat]
    - Move 1
    - Move 2
    - Move 3
    - Move 4

    Short commentary about what the moveset is supposed to do.


    This setup is nice and clear, tells your raters all they need to know. Notice that posting your Pokémon’s actual stats is unnecessary. It tells us very little if we don’t know the IVs and EVs, so you may as well save yourself the effort of typing them out.

    You must post movesets with your Pokémon! We cannot properly rate your team without movesets.

    Be sure to answer a few questions as well:
  • Is the team for ingame purposes or competitive battling?
  • Are you willing to rebreed for better natures and Egg moves?
  • Do you have access to an unlimited supply of TMs?

    Feel free to liven up your team post with sprites or other small pictures, but please keep them small. Large pictures take up bandwidth, increase loading time and just clutter your post. We do have an exceptionally handy Sprite Resource available.

    Don’t create lots of topics for individual Pokémon, they just clog up the board. If you already have a current topic about one Pokémon and want to start raising another, just add the new Pokémon into the existing topic.

    If you haven’t yet decided on your Pokémon choice, do not just post saying “I want to make a team help me.” Tell us what tier you want to play in, if you have any Pokémon ideas, etc. Do a little research, don’t expect us to do all the hard work for you!

    Also, asking for a moveset for a single Pokémon, out of the context of a team, isn’t a good plan simply because most Pokémon are so versatile that they have at least three completely different moveset options open to them. Tell us what you want your Pokémon to do: For example, “I want an Arcanine moveset” is much less helpful to your raters than “I want a moveset for a mixed attacking Arcanine,” as Arcanine can be physical, special OR mixed. If you have no idea what your Pokémon’s options are, have a look at our Standard Moveset compilation – it’s nowhere near complete yet, but once it’s finished it will be an invaluable resource to you all =]

    Follow these guidelines and everyone will be happy. Your raters will have all the information they need, and will in turn be able to give you the most detailled ratings.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2009, 19:12 by Dragonpika »




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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2008, 23:13 »
RATING A TEAM

It’s what we’re here for!

Of course, there are a few little guidelines to follow.

  • Do not say “x is sucky,” be it a nature, move or Pokémon, without giving an explanation as to why it’s a bad choice. Be constructive, people! Too many times I have seen “Serious is a sucky nature” with no explanation, which doesn’t help further the team maker’s understanding of competitive battling and really makes them more likely to ignore you, because it makes you sound rude.

  • Do not use term 'rape,' regardless of how you define it. Language such as "Soso rapes soso with move1" is not appreciated at all and we do not want to see it being used at all. This is still a +3 website.

  • Feel free to suggest alternative movesets etc to those in the team. In almost every case, indeed every case I’ve seen, there is some improvement that can be made to the team even if it’s slight. However, if once you have presented your idea to the topic maker they decide they don’t like it, and they fully understand the argument you are putting forward, then don’t persistently drive the point home that they should be using your set. At the end of the day, it’s their team, and if they don’t want to use your ideas then they shouldn’t be bullied into doing so. If you feel they haven’t grasped the problem with their choice of move fully, then go ahead and try to explain it to them better if you want – just try to be polite about it, okay?

  • Understand that people may have limitations on their team, such as having already caught a Legendary at a particular nature. They can't change this. Feel free to suggest a better nature for future reference, but ultimately you have to help them make the most of what they have.

  • Don’t repeat movesets that have already been posted. Take the time to skim through the topic and see if your idea has been mentioned already.

  • Quoting – don’t quote the whole first post if all you want to add is “Staraptor could be changed for Azelf” or “Your team has a massive Swampert weakness” or some other small comment. There’s absolutely no point, it just makes your post difficult to read. However, quoting the whole team is allowed if you want to make changes and suggestions to each individual team member one by one. If you do this, please put your comments in bold, or do something else to make the edits stand out from the original post, and write “Comments added in bold” or similar outside of the quote. It will make it easier for the topic creator to see what changes you’ve made, and it will make it easier for the mods to see that you have actually contributed, as opposed to just posting a quote. Also, if the original poster used images, edit them out of the quote to prevent over-consumption of our precious bandwidth.

  • Adding calculations to your arguments will back your points up. The more experienced team builders tend to appreciate calculations as evidence. There is a good damage calculator here.

  • Ingame teams are every bit as valid as competitive teams, and at no point should you mock or refuse to rate a team simply because it isn’t competitive. Help the topic creator out by suggesting the best HM slaves, what level they should be at for whatever Gym they’re about to tackle, whatever, just don’t say “Ingame teams are all about levels.” Any posts of such a nature will be deleted on sight. They go completely against the helpful nature of the Team Building board.

    Remember! The most important thing in this board, in any board, is respect for other people and their opinions.
    Well, unless they say that Rattata sucks.

    Happy team building!


    (and this is Webbz's post!)

    Cheers for putting the links in Kay, I couldn't find the tiers when I was trying to create a new team on Shoddy. Now things will be alright...  :yeswink:

    Edit by tpd[/b] - I've just added that little bit about the word we don't want using, don't know if you want to edit this or something, I'll speak to you later dear.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2009, 18:03 by theperfectdrug™ »

Offline Lord Raven

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2008, 00:08 »
Quote
#  Ingame teams are every bit as valid as competitive teams, and at no point should you mock or refuse to rate a team simply because it isn’t competitive. Help the topic creator out by suggesting the best HM slaves, what level they should be at for whatever Gym they’re about to tackle, whatever, just don’t say “Ingame teams are all about levels.” Any posts of such a nature will be deleted on sight. They go completely against the helpful nature of the Team Building board.
Are we allowed to say "in-game teams are all about levels" following it up with "If you bring your level to x then you should be fine against y gym leader"?
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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2008, 01:10 »
Just saying well done, this should be a great help to everyone who wants to join in on the teambuilding!

Offline Richard and Blaziken

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2008, 02:52 »
This is a welcome addition, and will be very helpful to all those new to Team Building, and even those of us who've been around for a while. Nice job! ^_-
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Offline Lion Demon

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2008, 08:31 »
If you hang out here For quite A While thats the first think that comes in the head :-/ (Neutral natures are sucky.)

Actually Wait You can make serious

Meganium
Serious
Overgrow

Energy ball
Earthquake
Reflect
Light screen

Simple non breeding support A Great moveset.


Somebody putted (Neutral natures are sucky and that wasn't me v_v). Does it break the rule of “x is sucky,”
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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2008, 14:58 »
This really helps me of how I should set out my Team's I want rated in the future! Even though I've posted team's on here before I've never set it out properly so thanks for the help Kay.

Offline Dragonpika

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2008, 17:24 »
Are we allowed to say "in-game teams are all about levels" following it up with "If you bring your level to x then you should be fine against y gym leader"?

Yeah, I reckon so.

Somebody putted (Neutral natures are sucky and that wasn't me v_v). Does it break the rule of “x is sucky,”

I'm sorry, I don't really understand your post ^^; if you're asking if your quoted post broke the rules, no I don't think so because you weren't saying it to the topic starter as such, rather you were just explaining that that was what usually came to mind.

Thanks for the support guys! Glad you find it helpful =]




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Offline Laprabi

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 10:34 »
I hope this will stop those people posting teams with Hasty Spiritombs and Quirky Blazikens.
hahahahahahaha

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 10:50 »
There's nothing wrong with people posting teams with those natures, Laprabi... inexperienced trainers and those with limited access to Pokémon/breeding will not be able to get better natures. I think if someone posts their Pokemon with similar natures, ask whether they can rebreed and suggest a better nature while saying why their previous nature was bad and why the new nature is better. Otherwise, nothing is learnt and that kinda defeats the point of Teambuilding. :\

Well done though, Kay. This is really helpful so I can get to the Tier lists easier. :D

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 11:09 »
I guess so. You live and learn.

I meant that people would read this topic and refrain from posting those natures.
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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2008, 11:16 »
Well, there is no obligation to read this topic... and looking at the natures guide and such won't always let people make the best choices on natures. Some people, like me when I first started Teambuilding, will think neutral natures are better than natures that lower stats. But hopefully it will help.

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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2008, 11:56 »
No, let's not have people be refrained from posting those teams.

As said, I'd rather have them post them and say "This is currently the best I can do", or to have them get an explanation of why it doesn't work, than to get a snarky and unnecessary comment like this one seems to be on how they are not elite enough to understand.

Let's try to be accepting here of people who don't know every detail of team building, and help them instead of berating them, okay?
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Re: The Teambuilding Sticky - Read it!
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2008, 19:33 »
No, let's not have people be refrained from posting those teams.

As said, I'd rather have them post them and say "This is currently the best I can do", or to have them get an explanation of why it doesn't work, than to get a snarky and unnecessary comment like this one seems to be on how they are not elite enough to understand.

Let's try to be accepting here of people who don't know every detail of team building, and help them instead of berating them, okay?

That's what I did when I tried posting, considering I'm very bad at Team Building and I often rely on the help of others. It helps me to have the advice of others, but I still try my best and come up with opinions which will hopefully help people. I'm going to post more on Team Building.

Thanks again Kay for the help.