Author Topic: I have a question for you guys...  (Read 1851 times)

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Offline OpalRhea

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I have a question for you guys...
« on: March 16, 2014, 04:13 »
When I was at college, I had a friend who went by Frank.
 Recently ish, he came out to his mother as trans (male). She took it well, but he's worried about telling his father. For all of Frank's life his father has viewed him as (in Frank's own words) 'his perfect little princess'. So Frank's really worried about telling his dad that he identifies as male.

 I'm asking you guys for advice i can give Frank for telling his dad, because last I knew, it was really stressing him out. Sorry if that made no sense, or offended anyone. I was trying to explain as best as I could

Offline Kpyna

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 05:32 »
My friend just went through somEing like this, Marcie... Gotta confess when I get riled up when playing DOTA with her I usually yell her old name and then try my best to not be like, "SORRY". Anyways,his dad believes in him  and loves him deepy (he called him a *perfect* princess!)

Unless the father is anti-trans, I'm willing to bet he loves him no matter what. What if your mom, sister, grandmother, came out as being trans? Besides perhaps the initial "o_o" because it's not something you expect at times, that goes away really quickly in people that I would consider normal!

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 07:54 »
Before I answer you, I have a few questions.


Frank wants to tell his father himself rather than ask his mother to do it?

Perhaps Frank wants his father to not doubt that it's true so he needs to tell him directly.


Also, Frank can't write down what he has to tell his father and leave it for him to read, in the hope that his father will come to him instead of Frank having to come to his father?

Who comes out first makes a difference, because if Frank's father confronts him and asks about the sexuality of his "perfect little princess," I imagine that all what your friend Frank should say in that situation is "Yes". I hope writing it out will worry your friend less than saying it to his father's face. If Frank is unhesitant writing to his father about it, then I don't see him getting worried after doing so. He won't have to worry about going to his father himself. When his father confronts him, he won't have to face indecision, because it would be too late for that by then. Things will happen on their own from then on.

Writing it down may get rid of the feeling that the confrontation is imminent. In other words, it's not like his father is standing before him as he writes down his feelings. Frank would not sense imminent conflict and would have resources to choose his words carefully with this approach. Frank won't have to make any major decisions after putting it down on paper and leaving it where his father will see it later on, since his father will find out on his own. If Frank does not know whether his father has read it, or if his father has not confronted him about it yet, then I hope Frank can relax over time. The longer his father has not mentioned Frank's thoughts (usually over a long period time), the less Frank has to worry that he will have to talk to his father about them in the next 5 seconds. If that's the case, then Frank won't need to worry or prepare himself for a confrontation after it's been a while (My younger brother, for example, dislikes flu shots, but it's not like he's scared for the entire year just waiting for them). I'm not confident that this is right. In fact, I'm sure I'm missing the point somehow but I just don't know it. I'm being naive. I hope you won't be mad at me since I might be misunderstanding most of the situation and saying it with disgusting confidence... or since I misunderstood from the very beginning and the more I keep talking the more bothersome it is. Although I don't know Frank, I still want to give you a detailed and frank suggestion. I might be suggesting what you've already tried. No, this is just my long, drawn-out, and maybe pointless suggestion.



I'm quite the hypocrite. I said I needed to ask you something first but then I ended up giving you the above... :dry:
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 07:56 by The Legendary Embarrassment »
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Offline Delicious_Scout

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 11:53 »
First off, as with the majority of cases, I lack information; how is the father or the mother? I assume the mother is good at understanding her own children, and the father has a very clear and righteous idea of what her/his daughter/son should be. If he could exploit that modellic idea telling him that now he is his little, perfect prince, that would be great.

Second, how did he tell it to his mother? I suppose it was a relatively quiet moment, and so must be done with the father under normal conditions; because the best ones are those in which both parties are in perfect harmony, like cooperating under preassure or danger. Recreating one of these environmants would be costly, but highly effective for the lesser impact.

And (maybe) third, we don't know whether the mother has already told the father about that relevant fact. Maybe she wanted him to be soft or informative, but I can imagine she has not due to the fact you did not specify it.

In general, the best would be telling him and hoping for the best, but each case is almost or totally unique, and so it deserves an equally unique solution.
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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2014, 06:13 »
Before I answer you, I have a few questions.


Frank wants to tell his father himself rather than ask his mother to do it?

Perhaps Frank wants his father to not doubt that it's true so he needs to tell him directly.


Also, Frank can't write down what he has to tell his father and leave it for him to read, in the hope that his father will come to him instead of Frank having to come to his father?

Who comes out first makes a difference, because if Frank's father confronts him and asks about the sexuality of his "perfect little princess," I imagine that all what your friend Frank should say in that situation is "Yes". I hope writing it out will worry your friend less than saying it to his father's face. If Frank is unhesitant writing to his father about it, then I don't see him getting worried after doing so. He won't have to worry about going to his father himself. When his father confronts him, he won't have to face indecision, because it would be too late for that by then. Things will happen on their own from then on.

Writing it down may get rid of the feeling that the confrontation is imminent. In other words, it's not like his father is standing before him as he writes down his feelings. Frank would not sense imminent conflict and would have resources to choose his words carefully with this approach. Frank won't have to make any major decisions after putting it down on paper and leaving it where his father will see it later on, since his father will find out on his own. If Frank does not know whether his father has read it, or if his father has not confronted him about it yet, then I hope Frank can relax over time. The longer his father has not mentioned Frank's thoughts (usually over a long period time), the less Frank has to worry that he will have to talk to his father about them in the next 5 seconds. If that's the case, then Frank won't need to worry or prepare himself for a confrontation after it's been a while (My younger brother, for example, dislikes flu shots, but it's not like he's scared for the entire year just waiting for them). I'm not confident that this is right. In fact, I'm sure I'm missing the point somehow but I just don't know it. I'm being naive. I hope you won't be mad at me since I might be misunderstanding most of the situation and saying it with disgusting confidence... or since I misunderstood from the very beginning and the more I keep talking the more bothersome it is. Although I don't know Frank, I still want to give you a detailed and frank suggestion. I might be suggesting what you've already tried. No, this is just my long, drawn-out, and maybe pointless suggestion.



I'm quite the hypocrite. I said I needed to ask you something first but then I ended up giving you the above... :dry:

You think something major like this would be better off with writing?  You know how nerve wracking it can be to leave a message then think about the reaction when you get home?  You also don't seem to grasp the difference between transgender and sexuality.  And why is your font so small to begin with?

The fact that you're making puns towards the end is a little sickening, it is kind of a serious situation.

At any rate, I don't think this place is the best place to ask.  The transgender folk I don't think have a particularly powerful relationship with their parents and the rest of us don't have our gender to worry about (since I was born a male and have 'felt' male my entire life).  I don't know what you're expecting from us to be honest, and Liz's second hand experience may just be the best you get.  Where's sylar anyway?  I wonder how his parents reacted to it.
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Offline sylar

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 06:54 »
hey

i ain't gonna question frank's certainty too much, but remember to have him really think about how sure he is. because a lot of cases where it's just somehting people leap into ends with people/hospitals paying thousands back to de transition, and it's money some clinics honestly cannot afford to spend on such things when they need to give that money into helping people start transitioning. for example, a trans woman i knew recently began to de-transition after about.. four? years of hormone treatment and surgery. they were fully transitioned when they realised they weren't actually a woman, and now they need to transition back to male again. make sure frank is well aware of this risk. don't make it like you're pushing him out of transitioning, just have him be certain that this is a step he wants to make in his life.

coming out is hard, but it doesn't really need to be. first, make sure he has a good idea of how his father feels. maybe his mum can help here. frank could mention other trans people to him to get a good idea of his opinion. there's a good list of famous trans people out there, it's just a bit of research to find one his dad might be interested in. maybe just get him used to this person first, then mention, "did you know they're actually transsexual?", and if he reacts negatively, it's about time to step away from the subject for then. if the reaction is positive/neutral, then you're probably on a good path.

in the case of a negative reaction, frank could ease his father into some more trans people who are a big influence on something he's interested in, get him into the idea of trans people as a whole. they're not broken, they're not wrong, they're just a little misaligned. ease him into it. this will probably take time, he needs to be patient. he's trying to give a good idea of trans people here, not put his dad off forever. if his dad doesn't budge, he might need to consider coming out to be a slower process, maybe one to wait until he's got a safe place to live. his mum is okay with it, but it's tricky having one parent be okay with it while another is against it, especially if they're firm on their views and refuse to allow a trans person in their house.

if it's positive, he can work on coming out slowly. make sure!!! make sure he gets his dad at a good time. not after a hard day at work, or at home if that's the case, or in a loud and difficult environment. something like in the living room, maybe tell his dad he needs to talk to him about something important. arrange a time and a place for it. once he's got them in a calm environment on a good day, he can tell him. he can say "dad, i'm transgender", or "dad, i'm actually a boy". maybe add in how he's told his mum and she's cool with it, he just needs his approval. perhaps tell him how he'd be much happier as a person if he was able to transition with hormone therapy and such. make sure frank tells his dad that he will not change at all as a person, it's a physical transition. of course, transitioning is mental as well as physical, but mostly that's because frank will be able to come out of his shell once he's comfortable in it. he'll still be his perfect little prince[ss?], he'll just be a man, and he'll be happier in that sense. also make sure he mentions his chosen name and pronouns. maybe say, "i'd prefer if you made an effort to refer to me as frank, and by saying 'son' and 'he' instead of 'daughter' and 'she' and so on. it would make me more comfortable around you. i don't mind if you slip up, but a concious effort in public would help me so much."

another thing is, make sure frank doesn't get mad at his dad if he doesn't like the idea. i personally had a hard time getting my mum to call me john and stop being passive aggressive with her pushing femininity onto me. she's much better now, and actually very active in the trans community with me. but it does take a while. frank should be firm, but know when to bend to avoid too much confrontation. even accepting parents can be sort of dickish about it. if his parents say 'she' instead of 'he' he can correct them gently, but snapping and getting rude at them for making mistakes isn't going to help unless they're doing it intentionally, and even then it's risky to be rude towards them.

as i said, it's a long road, and if frank is sure about being male, then he's in for a long but rewarding ride. i've been on t since august, and i can't tell you how much even just having people call me son or sir in public can elevate my mood for days after. it's really an experience. i'm due top surgery in a few months hopefully!

there's a few guides for you: here's a neat little collection of tags if he needs help with other things, and husdon's guide helped me so much before the first link was around. the first link has a lot of before/after transition photos too, so frank can get a good idea of how hot he'll be when he's on t. bet he can't wait for acne and bad moods and an endless appetite.

i hope i helped a little. if you wanna give frank my skype @ cronus.ampora (screenname is barry ****peas. he'll... know it when he sees it lmao) to talk about it then i might be able to help him through that. i'm not exactly the pinnacle of trans knowledge, but even just having someone on t for a few months to talk to when i was just considering transition was helpful to me personally, maybe it'll help him. good luck!

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Offline Delicious_Scout

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 16:38 »
You think something major like this would be better off with writing?  You know how nerve wracking it can be to leave a message then think about the reaction when you get home?  You also don't seem to grasp the difference between transgender and sexuality.  And why is your font so small to begin with?

The fact that you're making puns towards the end is a little sickening, it is kind of a serious situation.

At any rate, I don't think this place is the best place to ask.  The transgender folk I don't think have a particularly powerful relationship with their parents and the rest of us don't have our gender to worry about (since I was born a male and have 'felt' male my entire life).  I don't know what you're expecting from us to be honest, and Liz's second hand experience may just be the best you get.  Where's sylar anyway?  I wonder how his parents reacted to it.

Although I agree up to some point with Raven because of MasterTroll's cynicism (everything can be done with humour, but the type of humour is key), I mostly don't in the bold section. It is my opinion, but anything can be asked anywhere. It might be the case that our beloved writer madame <3 does not have anybody else to ask, or simply because she is aknowledge that, since some of use tend to write in the RP section, know how people feel up to some extent. But yes, I agree with you the case is a bit strange.

hey

i ain't gonna question frank's certainty too much, but remember to have him really think about how sure he is. because a lot of cases where it's just somehting people leap into ends with people/hospitals paying thousands back to de transition, and it's money some clinics honestly cannot afford to spend on such things when they need to give that money into helping people start transitioning. for example, a trans woman i knew recently began to de-transition after about.. four? years of hormone treatment and surgery. they were fully transitioned when they realised they weren't actually a woman, and now they need to transition back to male again. make sure frank is well aware of this risk. don't make it like you're pushing him out of transitioning, just have him be certain that this is a step he wants to make in his life. [...]

i hope i helped a little. if you wanna give frank my skype @ cronus.ampora (screenname is barry ****peas. he'll... know it when he sees it lmao) to talk about it then i might be able to help him through that. i'm not exactly the pinnacle of trans knowledge, but even just having someone on t for a few months to talk to when i was just considering transition was helpful to me personally, maybe it'll help him. good luck!

(I reduced the post just to save space, although this text has created some in most of our hearts). Now that's what I call a positive performance. You did what I couldn't; think a good solution-making through experience and a cold head and a warm heart. Congratulations.

Ah, OpalRhea; we'd like to know your opinion about this, since we, as humans, like feedback after all. You should read this in a soft way; I ain't menacing you. If I were, that'd be "Dang it, Opal! That lack of FeedBack ain't right!".
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Offline Lord Raven

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 18:23 »
Although I agree up to some point with Raven because of MasterTroll's cynicism (everything can be done with humour, but the type of humour is key)
MasterTroll is draghost who is either an ignoramus or a troll.  It's been an issue since like 2007, and I make it a point to reply to those posts so as a means of pointing out to the OP or something that his posts are useless.

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I mostly don't in the bold section. It is my opinion, but anything can be asked anywhere. It might be the case that our beloved writer madame <3 does not have anybody else to ask, or simply because she is acknowledge that, since some of use tend to write in the RP section, know how people feel up to some extent. But yes, I agree with you the case is a bit strange.
I forgot about sylar during the main body of the post but I figured the demographic here didn't have experience with this sort of thing.  Outside of sylar I can't think of any trans-gender folk on this forum.  But acting in the RP section is nowhere close to the unpredictability associated with people, if I understand what you're saying correctly.
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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 19:01 »
if anyones already said any of the stuff ive written this then apologies, having a bad reading/comprehension day today after burning out my brain over the weekend with a huge essay

telling parents is tricky, not to mention they've known their offspring the longest so they tend to react to it most of all
I see all these flightful comics where its like "oh yes the parent accepts it instantly" and then theres the usual tumblrites going "A BLOOB LOO BLOO BLA BLOOO IM LITERALLY CRYING AT THIS" under it because tumblr is the land where people make things up and get angry/upset over it but really nothing ever goes that smoothly ever lmao

like i know his dads all "my perfect princess" and i understand there might be Frightfulness about smashing that priceless ming vase there but franks happiness about his gender is priority, dont let him be all such as "oh no but what if hes disappointed",
like if he is? then tough cheese, frank needs to be frank with him (haha wow that was lucky) because suffering in silence aint glamarous or honourable at all 

 I dont know the dudes dad but if they're accepting of that sort of stuff (and the mother hasn't already told him)  i.e. aren't religious nuts and will throw him out on the street for being trans, then its usually a matter of just convincing them that he's serious about this

its also important for him to define his own transition and not to worry too much about the "correct" way to transition but im jumping ahead here,

the parents will probably say the odd stupid thing about it down the line as well, i guess just be there to be an Ear if like his parents say something incredibly stupid   

like the most annoying bit is that once you tell parents you can't untell them? so its one of those long boring "lots of thinking about it" occasions
if they're worrying about how to tell them its p much just a case of "hey parents can i talk to you for a bit, well you see (awkward mashing of words for like 10 sentences) and i think i might wanna transition",  none of this passive-aggressive faffing about with notes, like i said before his mother might have already talked with his dad about this so //shrug//

good luck for ur friend, im sure it'll go ok in the end and sorry this post of mine sort of ambled about for a bit and shrugged and went "well i had nothing to say but i said it a lot"

(edited cos i was a clown and didn't realise his mother already knew)
 

MasterTroll is draghost who is either an ignoramus or a troll.  It's been an issue since like 2007, and I make it a point to reply to those posts so as a means of pointing out to the OP or something that his posts are useless.

yeah draghost did some embarassingly regrettable things in past trans topics (which have always ended up a trainwreck in general cos of the G!!!!!!blt????? kind of atmosphere anyway), so disregard most of the stuff he says
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 19:10 by uuuaaaghhh samir you are breaking the car! »
           

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 19:24 »
I've only got a small suggestion here, but that's to tell him as soon as he can. Like, it's hard, I'm sure, but however difficult it might be to tell his dad it's going to be a lot harder if he finds out from someone else.

I obviously don't have experience in what he's doing, but I'd imagine the way he's feeling is similar to coming out as gay, which I've been through, and can say that it seems impossible to tell anyone, but once done you kinda realise how irrational that fear of telling people was; if his dad truly loves him (which presumably he does as a parent) then they'll love him no matter what his gender is. There may be a bit of the original shock for his dad of "my perfect little princess is a dude...", I mean it's not easy to comprehend, let's be fair, but provided he's willing to listen and Frank is willing to explain his feelings I'm sure it'll all go well ^^
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Offline sylar

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 20:33 »
if his dad truly loves him (which presumably he does as a parent) then they'll love him no matter what his gender is.

this is a very naive mindset that shouldn't be spread as much as it is. i understand it's optimism, but it's misplaced and dangerous. you don't seem to be aware of the amount of parents who love their children, only to pull a complete 180 on it when they come out as trans.
my mum kept saying things like "oh god why cant you just be a lesbian??" and pulled a lot of passive aggressive bs like i said, and she loved me to pieces, but she seemed so rude and awful when i came out. like i also said, she's much better now and would throw fists at anyone who talked about me in the way she used to, but to assume that everyone's parents will warm to it and Continue Loving Them Unconditionally <3 <3 <3 isn't a good mindset.
i know a good few people in the trans community who are literally homeless because their parents refused to house a transgender person. these were parents who doted on their children, only to, like i said, pull a complete switch into hateful menace when they came out. although it is nice to be optimistic, you can't just go around telling everyone OH BRO ITS COOL YOUR PARENTS GONNA LUV YOU NO MATTER WHAT, because that false sense of hope in any situation stings pretty bad when it gets shattered.


also, you'll find there's a small amount of trans people on here. i think i'm just the one everyone's aware of because most people knew me before i came out. i think here's the only place i really express it outwardly though, because i don't mind helping at all. on places like tumblr and other forums, i like to think im almost completely stealth.

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Offline SaRo|Rapidash

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 20:54 »
this is a very naive mindset that shouldn't be spread as much as it is...

Snipped the quote because I'm p much replying to the whole thing and its a massive quote.

But - there's also the fact that his mum knows and is accepting, and do you not think that even if his dad WAS completely anti-trans she wouldn't let him kick Frank out?

I think the best thing might be for him to say something like "Dad, did you know <famous person he likes> is really a guy/gal" and see how he reacts? I know he'd react differently for his own son (or daughter, a far a hes aware) but its the best he can probably get to find out if he's like uber-anti-trans or whatever (is transphobic the term? Anti-trans doesn't sound like its the actual word)
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Offline sylar

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 21:08 »
maybe his mum won't let him kick him out, but there's a possibility his mum's word will get completely ignored lmao. what if his mum's out one day and frank's dad just packs his clothes into a bag and is like "alright out" because his mum's not there to protest? i feel like i'm getting a bit obtuse here but maaan you'll be surprised what lengths transphobic parents will go to at times.

also,
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I think the best thing might be for him to say something like "Dad, did you know <famous person he likes> is really a guy/gal" and see how he reacts?

i know i was the one to suggest this, and i don't mean to be nitpicky which i know i probably am being at this point, but 'really a guy/gal'? what? that's gross, don't say that. be careful with this sort of thing in general. trans people aren't 'really a guy/girl' based on what they are biologically. i'm not really a girl, im really a guy with a biologically female body. trans people really don't appreciate the insinuation that they're not actually what they identify as. it's better to say "did you know x is actually transgender?", and if he doesn't know what that is, he tells him what transgender is. there's no 'they're really a guy/gal' about it.

edit: also make sure not to just pick out some random celebrity. even though it probably won't make it back to them, it's just damaging to imply someone's trans when they're not. it's literally putting their lives in danger for your own coming out, and that's gross too.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 21:14 by sylar »

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Re: I have a question for you guys...
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 21:53 »
maybe his mum won't let him kick him out, but there's a possibility his mum's word will get completely ignored lmao. what if his mum's out one day and frank's dad just packs his clothes into a bag and is like "alright out" because his mum's not there to protest? i feel like i'm getting a bit obtuse here but maaan you'll be surprised what lengths transphobic parents will go to at times.

But his dads going to find out eventually, presumably? Like he could try to keep it a secret but there's only so long he can pretend he's still female round his dad before something slips, right? And I'd say his dad is a lot more likely to be understanding if he was told by Frank rather than if he found out by accident

also,
i know i was the one to suggest this, and i don't mean to be nitpicky which i know i probably am being at this point, but 'really a guy/gal'? what? that's gross, don't say that. be careful with this sort of thing in general. trans people aren't 'really a guy/girl' based on what they are biologically. i'm not really a girl, im really a guy with a biologically female body. trans people really don't appreciate the insinuation that they're not actually what they identify as. it's better to say "did you know x is actually transgender?", and if he doesn't know what that is, he tells him what transgender is. there's no 'they're really a guy/gal' about it.

Sorry, I didn't think about the wording of that very well, but I didn't mean to offend anyone, I've just not spoken to a (known as) trans person so I wouldn't know how they word themselves. I suppose 'is biologically' would've been a slightly more accurate term, but yeah, sorry about that

edit: also make sure not to just pick out some random celebrity. even though it probably won't make it back to them, it's just damaging to imply someone's trans when they're not. it's literally putting their lives in danger for your own coming out, and that's gross too.

Oh yeah, I meant one that actually is by that, I just kind of assumed the guy wouldn't try to say a random non-trans celebrity

Comments in bold, because its just easier than quoting three times on a phone.

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