Topic: nintendo excludes gay marriage from tomodachi life

[sylar]

bunch of sources for this but heres one i have on hand

isnt it just dandy that this is said and done on the same day they announce hoenn remakes? im not saying they used hoenn as a cover up for this tripe, but you gotta admit its a pretty nice save on their part :^)

[Richard and Blaziken]

Really bad move on their part, imo. There's no reason for this in 2014.

[Delicious_Scout]

This is not new. They did the same fo the DS version in Japan, although the first patches did allow us to marry whoever we wanted.

*EDIT* My Body will not be ready for my cutie Reggie D,:

[SaRo|Rapidash]

I don't really care much, tbh, I mean it's not like they've said they don't agree with it, but this is a virtual world where such a thing might be unthinkable or whatever. I think it's a little off, but nothing huge because Nintendo have to balance their workload with the gain they'll get. Roughly 1% of the population is gay, whereas many countries are inherently against gay marriage, so they'd have to balance out whether the gain they'd get from adding such a feature is worth both their time and the possible drop in sales.

Edit: noticed a really inappropriately placed exclamation mark autocorrect had snuck in

[Lord Raven]

Really bad move on their part, imo. There's no reason for this in 2014.

Yes there is because gay marriage is still not backed 100%.  Not many states in the US have legalized gay marriage, and then you have some more of the middle east which believes it to be heathenous.  And last I checked, multimillion dollar companies exist to make money.

[sylar]

idk its mostly their wording that bothers me
i get gay marriage is An Issue but saying "this is a lighthearted fantasy world, there wouldnt be gays here" doesnt make much sense and is a bit of a piss poor excuse

if they did straight up say theyre not ready to do it/theyd release a patch allowing it if there was enough demand, itd probably help their case a little more, but saying gay marriage wouldnt be allowed in a lighthearted game thats really a life sim is sort of flimsy imo

[Turner]

It doesn't surprise me really. Given how Nintendo have been doing financially they will want to play it as safe as possible because sadly in 2014 being 'pro gay' isn't the safe choice. Same applies to a lot of companies who do the same by keeping games heterosexual by default, I don't think they are homophobic in doing so; probably the total opposite, but they probably just want to make games and never have to think about social controversy.

The reality actually is though, the change in attitudes to homosexuality in videogames will have to be driven by these companies at least in part, so they can't just bury their heads in the sand until it becomes socially acceptable and then suddenly change videogames as appropriate. They will have to face this issue sooner or later. I think that's just how society is going.

But yeah, the 'quirky' comment is badly phrased and not really relevant at all. It sounds like they're trying to distance themselves from the issue as much as possible. In their defense though, I'm pretty sure the marriage mechanic of Tomodachi Life really isn't supposed to be taken as seriously as games like The Sims or even Harvest Moon. Seems to me like the tumblr crowd is making a lot of noise over this because they were hyped over the trailers but don't quite understand the bigger picture, it's not as though it's Nintendo's responsibility to be social crusaders anyway.

[Lord Raven]

Article hit the nail on the head.  It's clumsy PR.

[Richard and Blaziken]

From Nintendo's official Facebook:

"We apologize for disappointing many people by failing to include same-sex relationships in Tomodachi Life. Unfortunately, it is not possible for us to change this game’s design, and such a significant development change can’t be accomplished with a post-ship patch. At Nintendo, dedication has always meant going beyond the games to promote a sense of community, and to share a spirit of fun and joy. We are committed to advancing our longtime company values of fun and entertainment for everyone. We pledge that if we create a next installment in the Tomodachi series, we will strive to design a game-play experience from the ground up that is more inclusive, and better represents all players."

I think this is pretty cool, whether or not it's true that it can't be patched. They're not ignoring the issue, and that's something.

[SaRo|Rapidash]

Yeah,I saw that post, but what's annoying me is all the people in the comments saying stuff like "Nintendo, you don't need to apologise to such extremists".

....how is wanting gay mii's extremism? Like, they're not bombing Nintendo or even encouraging a boycott or something >_>

[lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes]

unfortunetly this could also be because japan is still terribly cagey about gays, despite the tomes of yaoi suggesting otherwise

hence the "eh, in the next game we'll uh, wider audience, whatever" attitude  where they've still not explicitly said "yes gay marriage will be in the next game"
a possibility for the whole "sorry the localisers can't do 'owt" is probably cos that'd be messing w/ core code and then you have to send it through the debugging process and they probably dont view gay marriage on the same level as literal shipment-stopping bugs unfortunetly

on a cultural level, they haven't legalised or wholly recognise gay marriage and just over half the people polled in japan said they dont support gay marriage ¹ and the country as a whole struggles a bit w/ lgbt, feminism, race issues etc, in general (groping of females on the mixed gender carriages, no sexual harassment laws ,xenophobia to the point where to the point where the UN is all 'uh')
not to mention they're still in the "ha ha look at that gay, they're so wacky and funny to laugh at" stage with these things which is why you have stuff like "Hard Gay", but still no nationwide civil rights against discrimination for lgbt status

which is surprising cos, just like the west, in the ancient times they were gay as all hell i.e. sleeping w/ young boys and such, (cf. roman/greek times where we'd all bugger each other senselessly) but suddenly the modern age makes a heterosexual prude out of everyone, who knew

you probably gotta go into longwinded reasons about pre- and post-meiji restoration or some other thing to find out the reasons for this, no "bliggghhgh crhistianity forbids the gays!!!!" cos christianity didn't really make a big hit there (its a literal minority religion)

like its not a wasteland and there is lgbt movements and stuff ofc??? they're not north korea about it,  but its still a bit of a Cultural Problem atm




well this was an embarassingly long carepost about japans attitudes to gays,

[Delicious_Scout]

Many would say: «Create two different versions; one for non-gay communities and another one for PKMN.NET the ones who accept homosexuality». The problem is that this game is totally on-line; hence, that would mean that the two games should work using separated servers, and this is a pain to create AND creates a feeling of discordance (not to be confused with disco-r-dance).

«Why do not you tell the "non-straight" haters not to buy the game?». Because this is even more exclusive. Although I heavily disagree with their point of view with respect to this issue, they as well have the right to have fun with Nintendo products. In fact, I am pretty sure most of Nintendo Asia shareholders (but younger generations, if they happen to invest in the stock market, and they are pretty little ocmpared to most of adult population) have a sense of dignity and honour that do not allow them to accept love between people of the same gender. I hope I am wrong.

«Why did you make a game similar to "The Sims"?». Because VANANA, that's why!

[Wolstenholme]

I don't know if this would even work but I think they could have just not mentioned it at all and made it like the sims where it's a little crazy and anyone can marry anyone because surely the anti-gay people wouldn't make two male or two female characters get married anyway? So they might not even notice it because by including it Nintendo wouldn't be forcing them to marry two males together. By making a big deal about it they just inflamed the argument and made both anti-homosexuals and pro-homosexuals angry. They remind me of 12 year olds on social networking sites who post their own views and then let everyone else argue over the issue.


I hate moral arguments

[Turner]

unfortunetly this could also be because japan is still terribly cagey about gays, despite the tomes of yaoi suggesting otherwise

hence the "eh, in the next game we'll uh, wider audience, whatever" attitude  where they've still not explicitly said "yes gay marriage will be in the next game"
a possibility for the whole "sorry the localisers can't do 'owt" is probably cos that'd be messing w/ core code and then you have to send it through the debugging process and they probably dont view gay marriage on the same level as literal shipment-stopping bugs unfortunetly

on a cultural level, they haven't legalised or wholly recognise gay marriage and just over half the people polled in japan said they dont support gay marriage ¹ and the country as a whole struggles a bit w/ lgbt, feminism, race issues etc, in general (groping of females on the mixed gender carriages, no sexual harassment laws ,xenophobia to the point where to the point where the UN is all 'uh')
not to mention they're still in the "ha ha look at that gay, they're so wacky and funny to laugh at" stage with these things which is why you have stuff like "Hard Gay", but still no nationwide civil rights against discrimination for lgbt status

which is surprising cos, just like the west, in the ancient times they were gay as all hell i.e. sleeping w/ young boys and such, (cf. roman/greek times where we'd all bugger each other senselessly) but suddenly the modern age makes a heterosexual prude out of everyone, who knew

you probably gotta go into longwinded reasons about pre- and post-meiji restoration or some other thing to find out the reasons for this, no "bliggghhgh crhistianity forbids the gays!!!!" cos christianity didn't really make a big hit there (its a literal minority religion)

like its not a wasteland and there is lgbt movements and stuff ofc??? they're not north korea about it,  but its still a bit of a Cultural Problem atm




well this was an embarassingly long carepost about japans attitudes to gays,

Japan isn't cagey about gays at all, the general attitude you will get from even the most traditional rural folk is that it's fine to be gay so long as you have children, it sounds (and is) a strange mentality to have but there you go. Japan's problem is that they are traditionalists as opposed to strictly defined homophobes or xenophobes and there is in fact a very large portion of Christians in Japan who are very uptight about their standards. You will find lots of people in Japan who have no problem with gays but are against gay marriage because it goes against the traditions of marriage.

It's part of the same mindset that dictates that the oldest person in a company will take over from a CEO before a younger, more skilled person. There is very much a grandfather complex.

Also, Japan Times = not a great source. I wouldn't go for asahi either.

[lets all go out for some frosty chocolate milkshakes]

it's fine to be gay so long as you have children, it sounds (and is) a strange mentality to have but there you go.

i thought the general opinion was "well its ok if you're gay but keep it indoors" in that kind of reserved "we dont want any gay stuff in this house" sense

also re: having kids are you talking about gay adoption, how does that work out exactly for anyone but a usual traditional heterosexual japanese nuclear family

are against gay marriage because it goes against the traditions of marriage

how is this different from, say, the republican or tory backbencher view on gay marriage, both of which are lauded for being inherently homophobic

discounting the usual ITS A SIN reasons, of course

Japan's problem is that they are traditionalists as opposed to strictly defined homophobes or xenophobes

dont you think the latter stems from the former on the platform of ideological conservatism anyway, like the korea/ainu/burakkumin discrimination might be "traditional" but its still racism



p.s. i only brought up christianity since its the oft cited reason why we hate gays in the west, not sure why you've commented on japanese christians being uptight?