Topic: Was Misty the writers least favorite Pokemon girl?

[precita]

I can't help but think that the writers never really liked having Misty in the series. As someone who has watched most of every saga of the series, this is why I think this:

1. Misty was the first classic Kanto character to leave the show. Ash, Brock and Team Rocket all lasted in the anime for 13+ years (and Brock only just recently left), while Misty was dropped way back in 2002, back when the anime was still at the beginning of its lifecycle. She was officially the shortest-lived classic Kanto character of the series.

2. As we can see now, Misty's departure at the end of Johto was indeed quite permanent. Misty stayed gone permanently for the entire duration of the series and was never allowed back into the main cast in any of the following arcs.

3. Misty's cameos/guest appearances have stopped entirely. The last time Misty had a real appearance in the show was way back in 2005 when Ash came home from the Hoenn league. That was 7 years ago! She appeared in flashbacks in the recent Best Wishes series, but flashbacks don't really count. The writers don't even allow Misty to come back for 2-3 episodes anymore like she did during Hoenn, now she's completely ignored.

4. All the biggest water-related plotlines in the anime happened AFTER she left. Hoenn had Team Aqua which was a villain team all about water. Movie 9 was a blatantly water-themed Pokemon movie with a legendary who was the "prince of the sea." Wallace appears in the DP series as a, "Water Pokemon Master coordinator" and Misty doesn't get to meet him. They gave May blatant water-themed plotlines instead of using Misty for them.

5. Dawn got a Togekiss. Back at the start of the anime, Togepi was exclusively associated with Misty and no other character ever had a Togepi in fillers in the series. Then instead of Misty reuniting with her Togetic, the writers decide to debut Togekiss with Dawn instead.

6. With the current 5th gen anime drawing to a close, this is the second generation in a row where Misty did not get to return. The writers didn't have her appear in a single episode over the entire span of the DP arc, and it looks like she won't appear in the Best Wishes series either.

7. She was probably the worst treated of all the female leads in the series. She barely got much screentime and was always kept on the sidelines while Ash did everything. In many ways May, Dawn and Iris all got bigger roles in their respective sagas than she got, making it seem like Misty wasn't very important.

8. Misty did not get an ending theme in the Japanese version of the anime, while other female leads did.

9. The writers dropped Misty the first opportunity they got, which leads me to believe they might have dropped her at the end of Orange Islands if a female lead from the games existed with G/S instead of Crystal.

10. She's the only female lead with no ongoing rivals, unlike May/Dawn/Iris.


Thoughts on this? It almost felt like they treated her as a placeholder character until they had others to replace her with. Even though both May and Dawn left the show too (and Iris will leave shortly), they all just feel like the writers cared about the way they handled them. Any thoughts?

[Utack and Swampy]

1. Misty was the first classic Kanto character to leave the show. Ash, Brock and Team Rocket all lasted in the anime for 13+ years (and Brock only just recently left)

Brock left before Misty and was replaced with Tracey, and then brought back.

2. As we can see now, Misty's departure at the end of Johto was indeed quite permanent. Misty stayed gone permanently for the entire duration of the series and was never allowed back into the main cast in any of the following arcs.

So are all of the other of the female leads. Misty got 3 arcs, Kanto, the Orange Islands, and Johto. May got Hoenn and the Battle Frontier, Dawn got Sinnoh, and Iris so far has only gotten Unova. Additionally, Misty got mentioned in Hoenn, and even got a few episodes to allow Togepi to evolve. She also got some episodes in Chronicles. By comparison, Misty lasted the longest of the female counterparts of Ash.

3. Misty's cameos/guest appearances have stopped entirely. The last time Misty had a real appearance in the show was way back in 2005 when Ash came home from the Hoenn league. That was 7 years ago! She appeared in flashbacks in the recent Best Wishes series, but flashbacks don't really count. The writers don't even allow Misty to come back for 2-3 episodes anymore like she did during Hoenn, now she's completely ignored.

So has May's, she doesn't even get recalled in flashbacks. The anime seems to follow the trick of 'Bring back the most previous female counterpart to meet the new one' rather than 'Let all female counterparts get a few cameo episodes each new arc'.

4. All the biggest water-related plotlines in the anime happened AFTER she left. Hoenn had Team Aqua which was a villain team all about water. Movie 9 was a blatantly water-themed Pokemon movie with a legendary who was the "prince of the sea." Wallace appears in the DP series as a, "Water Pokemon Master coordinator" and Misty doesn't get to meet him. They gave May blatant water-themed plotlines instead of using Misty for them.

A large majority of the pokemon in the world are water types, dragging Misty back into the plot every time there's a theme dealing with Water reduces the character development of the new female lead.

5. Dawn got a Togekiss. Back at the start of the anime, Togepi was exclusively associated with Misty and no other character ever had a Togepi in fillers in the series. Then instead of Misty reuniting with her Togetic, the writers decide to debut Togekiss with Dawn instead.

May recieved a bulbasaur and squirtle, and Dawn also received a cyndaquil, which were exclusively owned by Ash, and Dawn was the first main character in the anime to get an electric type besides Ash. Not really seeing the issue with Togekiss, it was a Sinnoh-evolution, just like Mamoswine. I personally think it was just to be able to give her and display more region centric pokemon.

6. With the current 5th gen anime drawing to a close, this is the second generation in a row where Misty did not get to return. The writers didn't have her appear in a single episode over the entire span of the DP arc, and it looks like she won't appear in the Best Wishes series either.

Addressed earlier, the formula has mostly been having the last main female lead making a cameo. And pokemon is all about following formulas... We're still getting 8 gym badges and challenging the pokemon league after all.

7. She was probably the worst treated of all the female leads in the series. She barely got much screentime and was always kept on the sidelines while Ash did everything. In many ways May, Dawn and Iris all got bigger roles in their respective sagas than she got, making it seem like Misty wasn't very important.

Misty's character was not as developed as the additional female leads, but she did have some backstory here and there. However, at the time, Pokemon was geared more towards the male demographic, it was only at Crystal were you able to select a female character, and as I recall, the character' Crystal' didn't appear in the anime until much later, in Hoenn/Chronicles. It was only around Hoenn did Pokemon start focusing on the more 'feminine' aspect of Pokemon, activities outside of battling, such as contests, and thus began developing the female characters to be a counter-part to Ash.

8. Misty did not get an ending theme in the Japanese version of the anime, while other female leads did.

Same as above

9. The writers dropped Misty the first opportunity they got, which leads me to believe they might have dropped her at the end of Orange Islands if a female lead from the games existed with G/S instead of Crystal.

Brock was dropped first in the Orange Islands for a character who drew Pokemon, which are essentially drawings. I believe (havn't checked) a general dislike of Tracey made the show bring back Brock, and Misty stayed with us through Johto.

..So, yeah. They didn't drop Misty first opportunity, they dropped Brock first opportunity.

10. She's the only female lead with no ongoing rivals, unlike May/Dawn/Iris.

Same as 8, which is the same as 7.

Thoughts on this? It almost felt like they treated her as a placeholder character until they had others to replace her with. Even though both May and Dawn left the show too (and Iris will leave shortly), they all just feel like the writers cared about the way they handled them. Any thoughts?

I think you're correct that Misty didn't get as much character development as the newer leads, but the show really wasn't about her. It was about Ash and his journey, and Misty and Brock were really there to act as guides and support, not for their own character development.

[precita]

So are all of the other of the female leads. Misty got 3 arcs, Kanto, the Orange Islands, and Johto. May got Hoenn and the Battle Frontier, Dawn got Sinnoh, and Iris so far has only gotten Unova. Additionally, Misty got mentioned in Hoenn, and even got a few episodes to allow Togepi to evolve. She also got some episodes in Chronicles. By comparison, Misty lasted the longest of the female counterparts of Ash.

She lasted the longest, but only because there wasn't a female lead to replace her with at Johto's start. And Tracey kinda bombed, so they probably didn't want to make up an anime-only female lead at the time. Had Marina/Kris existed with Gold/Silver instead of Crystal, I sometimes wonder if Misty would have left at the end of Orange Islands. By the time Crystal came out we were in the middle of Johto, so they weren't going to bring in Kris/Marina for 1 year and a half just to get rid of her for May after.

So has May's, she doesn't even get recalled in flashbacks. The anime seems to follow the trick of 'Bring back the most previous female counterpart to meet the new one' rather than 'Let all female counterparts get a few cameo episodes each new arc'.

All of Charizard's big moments happened in Kanto, it was logical to expect Misty/Brock to be seen. Likewise May (and I guess Dawn?) have been references or shown in openings/endings in every saga after they left too.

Addressed earlier, the formula has mostly been having the last main female lead making a cameo. And pokemon is all about following formulas... We're still getting 8 gym badges and challenging the pokemon league after all.

So why didn't Misty get to come back again then? The Sinnoh saga went on for a staggering 191 episodes, they could have easily removed 2-3 fillers to make a small arc for Misty. Instead they chose to ignore the character while even Gary, another Kanto character, comes back for 4 episodes.

I could also mention that Dawn's cameo lasted a whopping 9 episodes, while Misty only got a measily 2 in Hoenn and then another 2 before BF. I wonder why Misty's cameos were so short lived?

Brock was dropped first in the Orange Islands for a character who drew Pokemon, which are essentially drawings. I believe (havn't checked) a general dislike of Tracey made the show bring back Brock, and Misty stayed with us through Johto.

Brock was originally dropped because the writers didn't think Brock's eyes would be popular with Western audiences so Tracey was created. Once it became obvious that Brock was popular and his eyes weren't a problem, Tracey was ditched. Had Brock had normal eyes from the start, we wouldn't have never seen Brock "replaced first."

Likewise Brock got to come back after he was replaced and it looked like his return was permanent for a good while till Unova. When Misty was replaced, she stayed gone.

Even if May and the Contests were still introduced, Misty would have continued into Hoenn as a side character. The Hoenn group could have very well been Ash, May, Misty and Brock, or a group of 5 if Max was still considered. It makes you wonder why Misty wound up not lasting in Pokemon past 2002, when Brock lasted till 2010.

[Angelic Lapras King]

I could also mention that Dawn's cameo lasted a whopping 9 episodes, while Misty only got a measily 2 in Hoenn and then another 2 before BF. I wonder why Misty's cameos were so short lived?

And what did Dawn do exactly in those 9 episodes? As much as I love Dawn, her cameo in Unova was kind of wasted. She was only really there to see Ash and a bit of fanservice for the fans. That's about it.

Often, I don't think the writers even have long term future ideas they stick with. I remember Misty's VA said she'd return in Sinnoh and that never happened. Remember all those hints of a Marina cameo in Sinnoh? Scrapped as soon as HGSS were announced and lacking Marina.

[Clairefable]

She lasted the longest, but only because there wasn't a female lead to replace her with at Johto's start. And Tracey kinda bombed, so they probably didn't want to make up an anime-only female lead at the time. Had Marina/Kris existed with Gold/Silver instead of Crystal, I sometimes wonder if Misty would have left at the end of Orange Islands. By the time Crystal came out we were in the middle of Johto, so they weren't going to bring in Kris/Marina for 1 year and a half just to get rid of her for May after.

They could easily have plucked another gym leader from obscurity to replace Misty for the start of Johto.

[precita]

And what did Dawn do exactly in those 9 episodes? As much as I love Dawn, her cameo in Unova was kind of wasted. She was only really there to see Ash and a bit of fanservice for the fans. That's about it.

I think the only reason Dawn got as much screentime as she did was because of Piplup. Since Piplup is marketable and popular in Japan its why Dawn stayed a little longer. Remember all those damn Piplup fillers we had in DP? The writers actually started focusing more on Piplup than Dawn herself at a certain point, and that's why the rest of Dawn's Pokemon got very little screentime.

Honestly I thought May's cameo return was the best, due to her being involved in Dawn's story and actually having new pokemon and development. Arguably on to this topic, it always did seem to me that the writers cared what they were doing with May more than Misty, given May is like the only female lead to get a proper story closing...Dawn didn't even get to beat Zoey and only stayed for one arc.

Often, I don't think the writers even have long term future ideas they stick with. I remember Misty's VA said she'd return in Sinnoh and that never happened. Remember all those hints of a Marina cameo in Sinnoh? Scrapped as soon as HGSS were announced and lacking Marina.

I don't think Misty's VA meant she was going to appear in episodes, just that the fishing lure would appear in the ep Dawn captured Buizel. Remember this was said back in 2007, at the time the writers knew they were bringing May back in 2008...I doubt a Misty cameo was ever planned much less so close to when May was going to return.

They could easily have plucked another gym leader from obscurity to replace Misty for the start of Johto.

The female Gym leaders of Johto were too old. Misty and Iris look younger and around Ash's age so its obvious why they were chosen. I definitely couldn't imagine Whitney, Jasmine or Claire as Ash's female lead, they're too old. Only the male sidekick character like Brock/Tracey/Cilan is usually the oldeest one.

[sylar]

well theres this thing called misogyny see...

[Angelic Lapras King]

Arguably on to this topic, it always did seem to me that the writers cared what they were doing with May more than Misty, given May is like the only female lead to get a proper story closing...Dawn didn't even get to beat Zoey and only stayed for one arc.

Yes, but Sinnoh only ever had 1 main story arc. It didnt go off into filler arcs like say, the Kanto Battle Frontier or the current Black and White filler arcs, because it did not have to kill a whole season in a filler competition/region till the next bunch of games came out. It would be utterly pointless introducing a new BBF for Ash during those filler arcs (Bar Tracy, who was meant as a Brock replacement but failed) when he'd be getting new ones for the new main region, hence why May and Max, and Iris and Cilan stuck around/went to Kanto. As for proper story closure, maybe, but Dawn was pretty much like a female Ash anyhow and she did get as far as the final at least.

[precita]

Dawn got a lot of screentime but she still only got 1 Contest quest overall compared to May's two. I counted the number of Contests in AG and May competed in 15 Contests and two Grand Festivals while Dawn competed in 11 Contests and 1 Grand Festival. But Dawn got to do more in other areas like tournaments so it evens out.

I've notice the girls who lack a ongoing quest like Misty and Iris got less screentime than May and Dawn. I guess doing type specific Gym leaders limits your potential.

[Angelic Lapras King]

There's not a lot Misty and Iris could do other then cheer Ash on and have the odd episode to themselves.

Way I see it, May got 1 main Contest quest and 1 filler Contest quest, much like Ash only winning filler leagues (Orange and Frontier). Call it what you will but in Japan, Battle Frontier was still under the Advanced Generation name, much like the Best Wishes filler arcs (Only with either a 2 or subtitle).

Or are we going to start counting their off-screen contest quest too (Hoenn and Johto.)? XD

[precita]

I wouldn't call the Kanto Contest quest filler as it was an all new region to her and it was like Ash competing in Gyms in a new region for the first time.

On that note I wonder if Ash's female companion will ever travel with Ash for more than one region like Misty and May. Both Iris and Dawn were only there for one region, I wonder if the next girl will get two.

[Sappy]

No-one knows yet. Iris might even stay on.

With X and Y coming up it might even be a possibility that Alexa (is that the one?) will join Ash on the boat back to Kalos, since she's with them a lot. Hell, she might even travel with Ash.

[precita]

Sometimes I wonder if Misty's departure wasn't intended to be permanent at first, but then became that way because most people didn't care that Misty was gone. Misty was removed as an experiment at first, back then nobody knew if the series could go on without the original trio, as Tracey had bombed.

Its obvious that if this had been the case, Misty would have been brought back like Brock was, but it seemed May just became more popular and the Contests became a major part of the show at the time so they decided not to.

Its especially notable when you realize how short-lived Misty's character actually was in the anime. She only lasted 5 years and has now been off the series for a decade. She's only in 35% of the anime's total episodes now. If the writers truly thought Misty was popular enough for a return, they would have never allowed her to stay gone past the Hoenn arc. But instead they allow her to fade away into oblivion for the rest of the series, bar some minor cameos.