Football/Soccer 2012/2013 Season Thread

[Liam]

Blimey, that was a a rocket!

[Typhlosion]

Fifa law 12, fouls and misconduct, states:

"A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play." It clarifies: "Excessive force means that the player has far exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent."

Nani attempted to control the ball while it was landing - if you let it bounce you risk a player nipping the ball away from you. Nani clearly does not know Arbeloa is where he is - that much is obvious from the way his eyes never leave the ball until it's too late. He does know a player will be in close proximity - of course he does, it's Real Madrid, they won't just leave him with yards of space - but Arbeloa comes flying in from nowhere. As indeed, he has every right to. The ball was there to be won. You say it's very high - I disagree completely. Head height might be a different story, but it's barely chest height. The ball is kicked and flicked around at that height every week across any league in the world.

how Nani attempted to control the ball was completely wrong because he's gone at it studs first

Well at some point FIFA might need to accept that when you put studs on the bottom of shoes, that's sort of a natural outcome.

Just because Nani intended to control it doesn't mean he's safe from trouble. Due to the danger of him attempting what he did intention becomes irrelevant because the damage had taken place. The rules do not mention intention or malice.

I think that's a very poor argument (which I've heard a lot today) and I'll explain why. You can find "dangerous situations" all over a football pitch IF you deliberately go around looking for them. As the FIFA laws quote, excessive force or brutality means far exceeding the necessary use of force AND being in danger of injuring the opponent. That's not an or, it's an and. And that's really important.

Let's assume Fernando Torres is running clean through on goal but the ball is just running away from him, and David De Gea comes out and goes down to smother the ball. It's a close run thing, so Torres also attempts to try and shoot. De Gea smothers the ball, Torres collides into him, De Gea is hurt. It's a foul against Torres, but it's nothing more than that, it's a ball two players were both entitled to go for. According to this argument, Torres should walk for that. Oh sure, there's no intention to harm De Gea, but hey that's irrelevant, he's basically kicked De Gea in the head. He has to go according to this argument, and I think we can all establish that's completely ridiculous.

What about Rooney's overhead kick against City? Doing an overhead kick in the air like that? When he can't see what's behind him at the time? Well that's a straight red card as well. Sure, there's no intent to hurt anyone but he could seriously injure an opponent doing so.

Nani did not use excessive force or brutality - he tried to control a dropping ball he was perfectly entitled to go for. Therefore he did not contravene any part of that rule, therefore it does not justify the red card.

And personally, the fact that even Mourinho says it wasn't a red card speaks volumes to me.

The rules also don't have anything to say why it isn't a red card.

That's a bit of an anti-argument, of course they don't say why it isn't a red card. There are no such rules, the rules dictate when a red card should be given, not the other way around. And to my knowledge there are still no rules which can justify sending Nani off. It was a poor decision.

Consider as well what the referee is seeing from real time. From his angle it does look like a kick to the chest =P

Nani goes for the ball and Arbeloa jumps into his foot. If the referee can't see that (i.e. foot up, eyes on the ball before Arbeloa arrives) then he's even either a) more useless at his job than the decision he gave makes out or b) not in a good enough position to justify sending Nani off since he isn't 100% sure.

As for the "ref ruined a good game" argument that's flying around. Up until that point the match was bloody boring.

Exactly the same points apply to everything you said Aidan. And to put it another way - the referee ruined a fair game, and the opportunity of a fair end to the game.

And on a side note that made me giggle to myself this morning: to everyone getting excited because of this decision going against Man Utd and somehow justifying it as karma, the irony is that no referee in the country will dare give a big decision against Man Utd at Old Trafford now for months .

Liam: Yeah, no taking away from the goals. Great movement by Ronaldo and Modric's goal: wow. Shame the fact we went out to two great goals (kind of how you want to go out of these tournaments) has been completely overshadowed.

[Spriter]

Modric fired quite the rocket last night indeed. Damn good shot, surely that should remind Real why the bought Modric in the first place. He was really good when Real got him, but he hasn't had a big impact in Madrid since then. If that's the way Bale is going...ugh, he'd be wasted. Modric hasn't seen much first team football either way.

As for the Red Card...I was iffy on the decision. It certainly spiced the game up, but not in the best way. I wanted extra time dammit XD

[Milsap]

Well at some point FIFA might need to accept that when you put studs on the bottom of shoes, that's sort of a natural outcome.

I dunno about the Premier League, but in League One players tend to straighten their foot when going to control the ball like that.

but Arbeloa comes flying in from nowhere

From what I saw, the only person 'flying in' was Nani

The ball is kicked and flicked around at that height every week across any league in the world.

But how many players attempt to control the ball in that way every week?

What about Rooney's overhead kick against City? Doing an overhead kick in the air like that?

Nope. Micah Richards had the sense to back out of it because he saw what Rooney was going to do. If both of them had gone in then play would most certainly have stopped.

Nani did not use excessive force or brutality - he tried to control a dropping ball he was perfectly entitled to go for. Therefore he did not contravene any part of that rule, therefore it does not justify the red card.

But the counter argument from most referees and pundits is that Nani didn't NEED to jump as high as he did. Arbeloa was always going to get there first

[MRxo]

[Will edit this post with a full response soon]

You don't control the ball with the bottom of your foot though, hence why it's dangerous. By going for it in that manner Nani put those around him at risk. A studs up tackle is a red card due to the danger of it; the same applies to this.

[pending]

[Typhlosion]

I dunno about the Premier League, but in League One players tend to straighten their foot when going to control the ball like that.

All the time? Every single time the ball drops? Regardless of the direction the ball is travelling? League One is unique then.

From what I saw, the only person 'flying in' was Nani

They both flew in, as they were both entitled to.

But how many players attempt to control the ball in that way every week?

No idea, I'd suspect a fair few.

Nope. Micah Richards had the sense to back out of it because he saw what Rooney was going to do. If both of them had gone in then play would most certainly have stopped.

You've missed the point though. According to this argument, the fact that Rooney COULD have seriously injured Richards had he not backed out means Rooney should have been sent off.

But the counter argument from most referees and pundits is that Nani didn't NEED to jump as high as he did. Arbeloa was always going to get there first

Why not? The ball was there to be won, it was at a reasonable height and Nani went for it. As for the 'always going to get there first', the fact Arbeloa got there about half a second before Nani suggests otherwise.

[Will edit this post with a full response soon]

You don't control the ball with the bottom of your foot though, hence why it's dangerous. By going for it in that manner Nani put those around him at risk. A studs up tackle is a red card due to the danger of it; the same applies to this.

[pending]

You're entitled to control the ball with the top of your foot, and at that angle that will leave your studs showing. It happens, we see it happening week in week out. Nani didn't know Arbeloa was there and as I've shown, no rule exists which supports the red card.

[Milsap]

Just saw Roy Keane's opinion on it on YouTube. United fans are not happy. Just because an ex-United player spoke out AGAINST them.

[MRxo]

Balotelli has 5 in 5 for Milan now, not surprised one bit! Shame he's gone from the Prem :/

[Liam]

Important wins for Aston Villa and QPR yesterday. Relegation battle is spicing up a bit.

Also Wigan went HAM on Everton with those 3 goals in 3 mins.

[MRxo]

Norwich let me down on my Prem accumulator and wow Wigan went for it. Next game they'll probably be shocking, and they play us next =P

Don't forget about City with Tevez driving them to victory over Barnsley!

If Blackburn beat Millwall I may end up going to Wembley for their semi

[Typhlosion]

No point worrying about the Nani red card anymore - we've just showed what happens when we're in a comfortable home lead against an opposition who look like they've never seen a football before ;;

[MRxo]

Cabaye is absolutely incredible. I hope he doesn't go in the summer.

[K.I.O.S]

Happy with our result of Everton proof that we pretend we are rubbish as we like a relegation battle...too bad we can't play like that in the league though.

EDIT:
Blackburn or Milwall in the semi's means we have a good chance at getting into the final, meaning we should be playing in the Europa League next season (City and United are pretty much guarantied Champions league spots, so as long as United win against Chelsea in the replay we can get the Europa League spot if we get to the final regardless of us winning the trophy.) I was hoping for a Blackburn Wigan derby Final, although if we get to the finals I'll still be going up to seem them. I'd much rather us focus on staying in the Prem though.

[Milsap]

Barcelona were absolutely amazing tonight.

[MRxo]

They still looked very vulnerable though. If they had Balotelli or Pazzini available they would have gone through. Then again, I thought Niang would have...

1. Real Madrid
2. Bayern Munich
3. Barcelona
4. Dortmund

Those are my favourites (in order). I still have a feeling with Madrid.