Topic: PKMN.net's Tier Lists

[Lord Raven]

In reality, I don't care about the tier list here that much, as long as you universally agree with Smogon on Ubers and are 90% in sync with them on OU, and leaving Abomasnow in BL.

[TCoZ]

I don't care what everyone else says about this. It's good for people who don't know about tiers, and we don't have to them direct off-site.

DEOXYS-S FOR OU~ EDIT:YAY ITS IN~~

EDITEDIT: Kecleon and Vileplume aren't half bad. I vote UU for both.

This is a classic example of what I'm talking about. There's no reasoning whatsoever, and to be honest I've not seen this dude do any competitive battling at all. And how is it good for people who don't know about tiers?

[Liam]

How can you say Vileplume and Kecleon for UU when you have no proof for them being able to work well in the UU environment?

[Lucariojr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lu-YX-y9Gw

*ahem*

I use Kecleon as a lead. Most don't see it as an immediate threat, so they ignore it, going after the more threatening Swampert. Swampert Protects, hoping for both Pokemon to attack it, which gives Kecleon a free Trick Room. Then Kecleon sets up Stealth Rock, and if they don't attack it, then it can Trick a useless item to another Pokemon.

It's never let me down on PBR.

Kecleon for UU~

[TCoZ]

Right, so you're using it in a different metagame and you're saying it's too strong for NU? You're using it in a double battle, despite tiers are based on single battles, which are completely different, and you're saying it can set up Trick Room and Stealth Rock really easily, despite the fact several other pokémon can do that?

One example isn't an argument.

[Lucariojr]

Cherrim was in UU for being a good Sunny Day supporter in doubles.

Kecleon for UU is just my opinion. I don't mind it being in NU, but it just seems it deserves a bit more.

[TCoZ]

In my opinion, Cherrim shouldn't be in UU then. It doesn't break the NU doubles metagame (at least there's no support given for it), so why is it placed in UU despite the fact nearly no-one plays NU doubles?

[Lucariojr]

Alright, then why not make a tier list for doubles?

[TCoZ]

Because nearly no-one plays doubles, and so there would be a lack of information to base a tier list off.

Also, there are so many strategies in doubles that it can be hard to find pokémon that are overpowering as generally there will be several strategies that can stop them.

[Lucariojr]

7 out of 10 people on YouTube use doubles. We could ask them.

[TCoZ]

Firstly, prove that statistic.

Secondly, each person will probably say fairly different things and as there's no sense of community it's almost impossible to get a discussion going, and considering the user:idiot ratio on Youtube, you'll likely get a lot of bias.

[Lord Raven]

And smogon base most of their decisions, uber/BL votes, and I think even their usage statistics (usage statistics may just be smogon server wide though) on the ladder too, which has some of the best battlers in the world playing on it.

[TCoZ]

Smogon statistics are based on the ladders.

[Laprabi]

My power had to be off when this topic was started...

For me, Rhypherior is not OU material and should be moved down. Sure, it may have incredible attacking stats, but it's special stats are so bad that Grass Knot or Ice Beam can OHKO him. He doesn't even have the speed to compensate for this.

7 out of 10 people on YouTube use doubles. We could ask them.

Um, no. From the YouTube battlers I have seen, including myself I have only seen one or two YouTube battlers who use doubles regularly.

[f3raligatr]

This is a classic example of what I'm talking about. There's no reasoning whatsoever, and to be honest I've not seen this dude do any competitive battling at all. And how is it good for people who don't know about tiers?

This is straight away what I don't want to see, people going around throwing wild accusations that the other person doesn't know what they're doing. This is not what that is for.

All I want is the Smogon tier list discussed a little, with some reasoning as to why you think a Pokémon doesn't belong there and conferring as the posts come in. So, say, like Enigma concurred with Zy's recommendation that Zangoose should be given a slot in UU. Is that too much to ask?