Topic: Improving 'bad' moves?

[SaRo|Rapidash]

Just a topic to post ideas for improving moves that currently kind of suck. The effect / bp / pp can be changed as much as you want, but the flavour needs to remain the same. Also obviously some moves like Tackle are weak by necessity of needing weak early game moves, so they wouldn't need fixing.

Mostly came from an idea to improve Hyper Beam;

Hyper Beam | Normal
Base Power: 150
PP: 5 (
Effect: The target is attacked with a powerful beam. The user cannot use offensive moves on their next turn.
The change: Instead of losing a turn, you can still use status moves or switch. This stops it being used as a sweeping move, but can still be used as intended as a last-ditch effort

Doom Desire is another move which is kind of terrible - I think given it is a signature move it can be pushed a fair bit more than a normal move, so I'd make it this;

Doom Desire | Steel
Base Power: -
PP: 5 (
Effect: [same description]
The change: The damage is now equal to 50% of Jirachi's Max HP, sort of acting as a reverse Wish, which I like as Wish is very tied to Jirachi flavourwise, and I like the idea of Doom Desire being a destructive wish. Still takes 2 turns tho - Doom Desire / Protect would be too powerful otherwise, given anything 100 base HP or under would be 2HKOd.

[The name master]

Wrap, fire spin, ect

DON'T MAKE IT SO YOU CAN'T ATTACK FOR FIVE TURNS!!!

So annoying that my level 100 Alakazam can easily lose to a level 1 Ekans!

[sans the skeleton]

So annoying that my level 100 Alakazam can easily lose to a level 1 Ekans!

At level 100, Alakazam would be at a 0% chance of dying to a level 1 Ekans for the simple fact that it would outspeed it and OHKO it with pretty much any of its moves.

As for Hyper Beam, I'd actually change it so that it can hit people regardless of typing, but keep the cooldown. Makes it slightly more effective without going into OP territory - and keeps it a threat against the squisher ghost types.

Splash should have had a better Z-move, tbh. Something akin to a high powered flail instead of... splash. It'd look better haha.

Hypnosis needs a slight buff in accuracy. Leech life has already been buffed up to 80 power, but I'd like to see it with a higher return rate of HP, since I notice a few pokemon with leech life won't get access to giga drain. (Plus, better typing for some + stab + big root = improving an already good thing).

Finally, wrap etc - needs better damage in my opinion. It stops them fleeing, if I remember, but I think wrap should have a chance to flinch. Fire spin already has a burn chance, so no changes there.

[SirBlaziken]

I would make Disable lock out the first move of an opponent's moveset, since many people seem pack more important moves in the beginning of the set.

[SaRo|Rapidash]

As for Hyper Beam, I'd actually change it so that it can hit people regardless of typing, but keep the cooldown. Makes it slightly more effective without going into OP territory - and keeps it a threat against the squisher ghost types.

I'm not sure this would actually improve it enough to be used though - losing a turn is huge, like in most ways it's actually a worse downside than even Explosion. Even worse that you can't switch in that turn - if you KO something and they switch in a counter they have two turns to set up - Imagine something like Pheromosa getting two quiver dances, or Scolipede getting a Swords Dance and a Substitute, as well as two Speed Boosts! I guess saying you can only switch might be enough? Wouldn't be much worse than Draco Meteor type things then.

I would make Disable lock out the first move of an opponent's moveset, since many people seem pack more important moves in the beginning of the set.

I love the sentiment, but I feel everyone would just move their worst move to the front if Disable worked like this? Like there'd be no disadvantage to doing so as far as I can tell. Could maybe hit the highest BP move but then it could be too good?

[SirBlaziken]

^In many sets, disabling one move can still severely hinder a pokemon's usefulness if it stays in. Plus imagine if a choicer uses it's first slotted move?

[SaRo|Rapidash]

^In many sets, disabling one move can still severely hinder a pokemon's usefulness if it stays in. Plus imagine if a choicer uses it's first slotted move?

But disable works in the choice scenario anyway? Could disable a random move if the foe hasn't yet used a move to get around the "if you go first it doesn't work issue"? Or even the first move in that scenario as it's still /an/ improvement, even if not a huge one.

[MonsterMon64]

Probably not a new idea per se, but you'd think Teleport would at least allow you to switch out if you were trapped by Wrap, Shadow Tag, or the like in trainer battles. It's basically the inverse of Roar or Whirlwind, neither of which used to work in trainer battles before Gold and Silver... but outside of Gen I, what's Teleport's excuse?